Sharpening japanese style
- Paul Atzenweiler
- Deshi
- Contact:
- Location: Kansas City, MO
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
Ha! Yes, the bench is quite valuable!! I think my next saw will be a better rip saw. I have an older Ryobi that has some very tired, chipped, cracked crosscut teeth. I think I will cut off the crosscut and leave the rip. Hopefully will get to do that in next couple of days.
- Sebastian Gonzalez
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Contact:
- Location: Graz, Austrua
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
Paul, do you want to participate in a sharpening experiment?
Before you sharpen the rip teeth of your next saw, hammer them flat again so there is no set. Then draw file them till they are clean again (you can use the tip of the feather file). Then sharpen as usual and tell us if you feel any difference with respect to the other saw.
It's a bit more of work but it may pay off, it's something I'm studying at the moment but still don't gather enough data to have a conclusion. I have the hunch that doing only the facets is like sharpening the bevel side of the kanna without ever touching the mirror side.
Before you sharpen the rip teeth of your next saw, hammer them flat again so there is no set. Then draw file them till they are clean again (you can use the tip of the feather file). Then sharpen as usual and tell us if you feel any difference with respect to the other saw.
It's a bit more of work but it may pay off, it's something I'm studying at the moment but still don't gather enough data to have a conclusion. I have the hunch that doing only the facets is like sharpening the bevel side of the kanna without ever touching the mirror side.
- Paul Atzenweiler
- Deshi
- Contact:
- Location: Kansas City, MO
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
I will try that with the saw in previous post. I think that saw will become the saw I experiment on. On this saw, I am cutting off the crsosscut teeth as they have became broken and cracked by previous owner. I clamped a piece of wood to the saw and used an angle grinder to score the blade and carefully snapped off the row of teeth. I filed the cut smooth and am now ready to resharpen the rip teeth.
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- Sebastian Gonzalez
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Contact:
- Location: Graz, Austrua
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
Looking nice
I want to do the same with my madonoko but have no angle grinder, need to arrange a visit to my jeweller friend.
Check the thickness of the blade in what now is the back of the saw. That gives you the minimum set you need. (Looks like the teeth were filed from the side so you have less set now but it may have been compensated by cutting the teeth off.)
Are you making a key-hole saw with the left over teeth?
I want to do the same with my madonoko but have no angle grinder, need to arrange a visit to my jeweller friend.
Check the thickness of the blade in what now is the back of the saw. That gives you the minimum set you need. (Looks like the teeth were filed from the side so you have less set now but it may have been compensated by cutting the teeth off.)
Are you making a key-hole saw with the left over teeth?
- Paul Atzenweiler
- Deshi
- Contact:
- Location: Kansas City, MO
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
There is about 6 - 7 inches of good teeth and I will save it for keyhole saw or some specialty type saw. I will at least sharpen them for practice.
- Sebastian Gonzalez
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Contact:
- Location: Graz, Austrua
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
take a look at this one, looks fun
http://auction.rakuten.co.jp/item/11676456/a/10000858/
BTW, does anyone (Chris?) know how to write the kanji for kanna in a computer (mac)? I can do 鋸, どうもありがとう, etc, but I've been totally unable to find the spelling to write kanna.
http://auction.rakuten.co.jp/item/11676456/a/10000858/
BTW, does anyone (Chris?) know how to write the kanji for kanna in a computer (mac)? I can do 鋸, どうもありがとう, etc, but I've been totally unable to find the spelling to write kanna.
- Sebastian Gonzalez
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Contact:
- Location: Graz, Austrua
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
Going back to what I told you Paul of draw filing the teeth... Mark Gable dropped by my blog and left some really good advice. Amongst them, he explains the reason for "ploughing" and "brushing" (sen and miyagi in japanese) the blade:
"The reason this is done, is friction in use is reduced, and this (and the process of setting) work hardens just the surface, which means the burr breaks away with less ductile bending - more like glass - just where a cutting edge is created, sharper and longer wearing, yet still easily sculpted to correct shape."
This makes total sense to me. It's like an inverted kitchen knife: the (work hardened) hard steel on the outside and a soft core in the middle.
"The reason this is done, is friction in use is reduced, and this (and the process of setting) work hardens just the surface, which means the burr breaks away with less ductile bending - more like glass - just where a cutting edge is created, sharper and longer wearing, yet still easily sculpted to correct shape."
This makes total sense to me. It's like an inverted kitchen knife: the (work hardened) hard steel on the outside and a soft core in the middle.
Post
Here is the listing for kanna.
"Kanna 鉋: literally, the metal (金) that envelops (包) the surface of the wood. The Japanese plane"
I use it by copying and pasting. Maybe this will help.
Jack
Re: Sharpening japanese style
In the Lounge There is a glossary which has terms and their kanji equivalent.Sebastian Gonzalez wrote:
BTW, does anyone (Chris?) know how to write the kanji for kanna in a computer (mac)? I can do 鋸, どうもありがとう, etc, but I've been totally unable to find the spelling to write kanna.
Here is the listing for kanna.
"Kanna 鉋: literally, the metal (金) that envelops (包) the surface of the wood. The Japanese plane"
I use it by copying and pasting. Maybe this will help.
Jack
- Sebastian Gonzalez
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Contact:
- Location: Graz, Austrua
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
I do the same, but it's too slow... I can never find the tab where the kanna are standing. I have too many it seems.Jack_Ervin. wrote: I use it by copying and pasting. Maybe this will help.
Jack
- Gadge
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Post
Re: Sharpening japanese style
Hi Sebastian,
Thank you for your posts. I've just joined the forum and have read through this thread. For a long time I've been very interested in learning to sharpen my japanese saws and have tried to find as much information as possible. The information you have gained adds a lot to what I have. There are many things I like to say and ask but for now I have questions about the Madonoko pattern.
I have a couple of larger saws with this pattern; I think they were probably meant for pruning trees etc. I noticed they have been sharpened with the one rip tooth as long as the cross cut teeth. On all western saws with this kind of pattern the rip tool is call a raker tooth and is slightly shorter. The reason is that it allows the cross cut teeth to slice the fibres unhindered and then clears away the swarf. When the raker teeth are tuned to just the right height the swarf comes away in beautiful strands. I modified one of the old Modonoko I had and it worked much better than before. I have often wondered if any of the Japanese saws were ever set up this way.
Any insights appreciated.
Regards,
Gadge
Thank you for your posts. I've just joined the forum and have read through this thread. For a long time I've been very interested in learning to sharpen my japanese saws and have tried to find as much information as possible. The information you have gained adds a lot to what I have. There are many things I like to say and ask but for now I have questions about the Madonoko pattern.
I have a couple of larger saws with this pattern; I think they were probably meant for pruning trees etc. I noticed they have been sharpened with the one rip tooth as long as the cross cut teeth. On all western saws with this kind of pattern the rip tool is call a raker tooth and is slightly shorter. The reason is that it allows the cross cut teeth to slice the fibres unhindered and then clears away the swarf. When the raker teeth are tuned to just the right height the swarf comes away in beautiful strands. I modified one of the old Modonoko I had and it worked much better than before. I have often wondered if any of the Japanese saws were ever set up this way.
Any insights appreciated.
Regards,
Gadge
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