Routers

[Chris Pyle]

Hi Chris,

Do you have any suggestions on a router and router guide? I'm having to create a very portable workshop because of my current living conditions and I believe that a router would as large an ROI as any other tool I could purchase right now.

Thanks

(Also, do you still suggest the Makita portable planer?) (And do you or anyone else have a suggestion for a circular saw and straight edge guide?)

[Chris Hall]

Router guide: MicroFence

Router: something around 2 hp would be ideal for hand-guided work. I like the Festool OF 1400. The guides it come with are nothing special, but it has a good depth of cut adjustment, soft start, and excellent dust collection.

[Mathieu]

The past couple of years I have used many different routers. At first the Festool was definitely my favorite. Recently I have been using the Mafell routers and I like them more. The others I will not discuss since they are not on my personal wish list.
I think the engine is of better quality especially the lo65 is way ahead of the of2200. The glide bars still run smooth on the Mafell after long and intensive use, not the case with the Festool which is a serious annoyance for me. The Mafell is easily stood upside down when you change bits, the Festool not.
The copying rings on the Mafell are dead accurate, I have heard that this is not always the case with the Festool although I have no experience with this issue.
The depth adjustment on the Festool looks fancy but I like the no trill and frills on the Maffel much more. Personal preference I guess.
Dust collection is excellent on both machines but I don't like the plastic cap so I never use it because I like to see what I am doing. On both machines I miss a bright LED light.
And again I like the round handles on the Mafell so much more then the grips on the Festool. Unlocking is smooth since the knob runs on a bearing. At the moment the Mafell is also cheaper but maybe this is only the case in Europe??

Festool will be a very good buy no doubt about it, but my personal preference goes to Mafell.

If you are looking for a trim router I can recommend the Ridgid which is a great little machine. The Bosch I don't like since the aluminum on the shaft will wear and cause it to grip while adjusting, very annoying.

The Hitachi routers are crap but the make nice skill saws http://www.dogudoraku.com/catalog/produ ... 110_110140! I mean the Japanese version, I have both a Makita and Hitachi with LED and they are equally fine.

Do you mean a straight edge like this http://www.dogudoraku.com/catalog/produ ... 150_150190
The Tajima is better made then the Shinwa which can bend easily if you are not careful.

I was in the market for a portable planer myself this week and couldn't spend the money on the Makita. I have used the machine, both Japanese and Euro version and they are equally flimsy. But then the stars alined and I found this beautiful Inca made in the 70's in almost new condition.

inca1.tiff (658.88 KiB) Viewed 8938 times

I don't know about the US but here there is a gigantic second hand market for woodworking machines. And they are all quite cheap. Maybe you can find a good used one instead of buying a new portable planer. I don't know about the other brands but they can't be much better then the Makita I suppose.

If I could have afford it I would have gotten this one but that needs to wait for now.
http://www.dogudoraku.com/catalog/produ ... 145_145105

Just looked at the micro fence site. Oh darn, now I want one..

[Chris Hall]

Interesting. I am also under the impression that the Mafell stuff is better than the Festool, but the prices for Mafell in the US are exorbitant. The Mafell jigsaw, for example, retails for $650 or so, and the LoE65Ec router is $1014.00, so they will have a tough time selling them here I think. I do have my eyes on one of their track saws.

You're right that the copying rings on the Festool are poor.

The 'straightedge' you linked to is a saw protractor guide. I was talking about a straightedge as a simple piece of perfectly flat and straight metal you can use to check things for flatness, etc.

[Chris Hall]

For trim routers I would consider either the Festool OF1010, or the new Makita which looks promising. Mafell makes a trim router as well which looks sweet, but pricey. I've also got a Bosch Colt, which it use with a Microfence plunge base, and a Porter Cable 312 with Warner sub-base for edge trimming tasks.

I like trim routers which can accept 8mm collets as well as 1/4". The Festool comes with both collets. The Makita has the 8mm available as an option in Europe, as does the Bosch. Unfortunately the European Bosch Colt has a different spindle to accept the collet, so you would need to actually obtain the router from Europe in order to have the collet capability. The Mafell comes with both 6 and 8mm collets, probably the 1/4" collet would be available in N. America, but you're looking at $600 for that little gipper.

One thing though about the Mafell small trim router: I read somewhere it is actually made by Festool. Lets compare the Mafell to the Festool to see how similar they look:

The Mafell, at $600:

00210802_913302_g1.jpg (71.78 KiB) Viewed 8932 times

The Festool, at under $400:

images.jpg (7.58 KiB) Viewed 8932 times

I'm not confident that one can draw the conclusion that both routers are made by the same company, but there are a lot of design similarities to be sure. Apparently Mafell used to make the large Festool router as well, before the design was revised. Mafell aims more at the heavy carpentry worker, while Festool aims more at the cabinetmaker/joinery end of things, with some product overlap.

[Mathieu]

Interesting. Seems basicaly exact the same machine. I wonder if the components like motor, bearings etc. are the same? It seems that the Ft can run to up to 24000rpm and the Mf only to 22000. The mafell has:
'- Great versatility thanks to 1 15/16 in. (50 mm) cutting depth and the speed
  range of 10.000 to 22.000 rpm.
- Control electronics, which constantly maintain the specified speed and
  guarantee smooth start-up and '
This might mean the Mf has different electronics hence the price difference. But does this mean a better machine? Who knows, I always find it hard to judge those things depending on the information provided by the manufacturers. Mafell has the tendency to be the most expensive brand in most cases but they do pay tribute to the 'German high quality production ethics'.

[Chris Hall]

Hmm. Well, on those points the Festool also has electronic motor control and soft start. The depth adjustment range is 55mm, or 2.125". Also made in Germany. Looking at the Mafell base I notice it has poorer support for the edge guide rods (2 locations enclosing the rod instead of 3 on the Festool), and no quick disconnect cord. Not sure I see any reason to buy the Mafell in this case.

[Mathieu]

Well Chris, you almost convinced me. I thought I was in for the Mafell router as one of my next purchases but now I will reconsider the Festool. That is just one of the nice things about the forum that we can have little discussions about tools and such.

[Yxoc]

I would appreciate the recommendations of the hive mind on a router purchase.

Generally Australia receives the lower end of power tools from most companies. We do have stockists of festools equipment however I have decided that I cannot justify the price of their routers (any surplus funds to spring for a festool have been absorbed into a mafell saw purchase)

The two models I have been eyeing are the makita rp 2301 fc and the bosch GOF 1600 CE (which I believe is marketed under a different model number in the USA). However, having never owned (or used) a router, I don't really know what's important regarding features. My main intended purpose for the tool is to expedite waste removal for carpentry joinery. I expect any other tasks should be covered by a router that can do the main task.

So I expect the important criteria would be :
- sufficient power
- potential accuracy
- cut depth
- good dust collection

The two routers mentioned score reasonably on most of these criteria. The makita had a bit more power (though the bosch weighs about the same). The bosch had slightly more cut depth. Dust collection on the makita seems like an afterthought but a dust collection nozzle is available as an accessory. Actual stocks of accessories for both machines seem to be rarer than rocking horse shit, but I am happy to mail order if need be. Both have nice electronic features such as speed control, soft start and brake. Both seem to have good micro depth control. One concern is that both models appear to only lock one of the pillars for plunge locking, could this lead to play /rocking of the bit when set to correct depth?

The makita costs a bit more, but both seem like a bargain compared to festool.

Does anyone here have direct experience with either model?
Derek

[Chris Hall]

All routers, even Festool, have their defects, which you will find if you use them long enough.

I've used Bosch in the past (not the same model as the one you mention), and it was fine except for the on/off switch being prone to failure from fine dust accumulation inside the switch. It also has a clumsy adapter for mounting Porter Cable type template copy rings. Bosch has it's own ring system, but only in metric. The Porter Cable copy ring is pretty much the industry standard, so I tend to like a router which can fit them without fuss. With Festool, this is also an issue, however by replacing the base plate with an acrylic base plate from Pat Warner, the issue is solved.

My only experience with Makita routers is with one of their trim routers, an older model. It's okay, but not the most well engineered product out there. Looking at the RP2301, it does have similar ergonomics to the Bosch, but i prefer the base plate on the Makita with its two flat sides. This type of base plate is very handy when you want to run the side of the router against something.

Maybe, given the choice you list, i would be inclined to try the Makita. Not wild about it's depth stop system, but Bosch's is also imperfect.