Hollow chisel mortiser

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De
Dennis

Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:05 pm

Those floor models illustrated in the photos do seem like the way to go for larger material.

If someone is doing limited production type work, the hydraulic machines seem like they might be a bit of overkill to me, but I have never used one. Mortising gets to be a little delicate at times, I wonder about the degree of set up and control with the hydraulics, including the time factor. A friend of mine was looking into purchasing a hydraulic type, but settled on a manual one, I never asked him why. Have you used one, Chris? I know that with a smaller chisel, like a quarter inch, mortising fairly deep into hardwood without a lot of care can cause wandering and the inner bit can too easily snap. One thing with the manual type machines, you can easily check the positioning of your mortise up to an exacting line before taking the plunge, and even with varying degrees of depth in a single mortise, set up is fast. I might be totally wrong about any inconvenience with the hydraulic type, it could well be something that one easily gets to appreciate. Especially for deep mortises in larger timber, they must be great. Lots of manual mortising does get your arm tired a bit, having both types of machines in a shop could also be advantageous. Two machines of everything then cloning yourself would have to be the ultimate, albeit the potential conflict when there is the part of you that wants to work, fighting with the other part that likes to sit and drink coffee all day.

Many years ago I was once visiting a shop that had a mortiser with an exceedingly large ribbed table, on the order of 24" wide. For furniture type work that does seem the ideal, especially for case work, though some brands are wider than others, the size of the table can have you wishing for more depth. I find myself sometimes taking of the clamp and possibly the handle that moves the table from left to right, which can allow wider material to be mortised, but a machine that was designed to enable wider material, would be very nice indeed. That one was the only of it's kind that I have ever observed, and too long ago to recall the brand.

If you need a check on EMS shipping size requirements, I can get that for you.

Dennis
Cole
Raw Log Import
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Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:31 pm

I would be interested in getting a stationary one set up for larger timbers but I would like to purchase a turn-key machine with tables etc. like the one you posted above. (Sasada SS-G52)
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Chris Hall
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Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:34 pm

The pictured Sasada SS-G52, used, is around $8000, plus shipping from Japan. The one on Long island also has 3 heads (hollow chisel, chain, and regular drill), however the seller is not sufficiently organized so far to send photos along, so I have no idea as to the condition.
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Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:39 pm

Dennis wrote:Those floor models illustrated in the photos do seem like the way to go for larger material.

If someone is doing limited production type work, the hydraulic machines seem like they might be a bit of overkill to me, but I have never used one. Mortising gets to be a little delicate at times, I wonder about the degree of set up and control with the hydraulics, including the time factor. A friend of mine was looking into purchasing a hydraulic type, but settled on a manual one, I never asked him why. Have you used one, Chris? I know that with a smaller chisel, like a quarter inch, mortising fairly deep into hardwood without a lot of care can cause wandering and the inner bit can too easily snap. One thing with the manual type machines, you can easily check the positioning of your mortise up to an exacting line before taking the plunge, and even with varying degrees of depth in a single mortise, set up is fast. I might be totally wrong about any inconvenience with the hydraulic type, it could well be something that one easily gets to appreciate. Especially for deep mortises in larger timber, they must be great. Lots of manual mortising does get your arm tired a bit, having both types of machines in a shop could also be advantageous. Two machines of everything then cloning yourself would have to be the ultimate, albeit the potential conflict when there is the part of you that wants to work, fighting with the other part that likes to sit and drink coffee all day.

Many years ago I was once visiting a shop that had a mortiser with an exceedingly large ribbed table, on the order of 24" wide. For furniture type work that does seem the ideal, especially for case work, though some brands are wider than others, the size of the table can have you wishing for more depth. I find myself sometimes taking of the clamp and possibly the handle that moves the table from left to right, which can allow wider material to be mortised, but a machine that was designed to enable wider material, would be very nice indeed. That one was the only of it's kind that I have ever observed, and too long ago to recall the brand.

If you need a check on EMS shipping size requirements, I can get that for you.

Dennis
I'm not sure either about the hydraulic functioning aspect. I'm sure it works well but don't know if it is something I really would need or not. Given a choice between used Tokiwa Servo-V's, with hydraulic clamping or without, the price difference is fairly modest, so that aspect doesn't seem to be factor in deciding. The hydraulic lines to the clamp though do appear to be in the way a bit.

I've used air clamps on a JDS Multi-router and on a Martin shaper, and liked them a fair bit, so the idea of non-mechanical clamping does not strike me as a negative, but I have no direct experience in regards to the hollow chisel machines and hydraulic feed or clamping.
Cole
Raw Log Import
Location: Oklahoma
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Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:40 pm

I love the idea of the 3 heads. The machine on Long Island has my interest peaked.
De
Dennis

Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:05 pm

A hydraulic clamp seems cool, but the little snug up by hand at the end while observing how some odd shapes are doing being pressed against the rear table face, can be helpful as well. Having both manual and auto option on a machine, I guess is too much to ask for.

I have never used a chain mortiser, only ever seen one in a shop in Great Britain. The idea of a mortiser that leaves the walls of the mortise in the least abused condition has appeal. Even a sharp hollow chisel with a slow feed rate can leave the walls a bit crumbly. In softer woods that seems like it is more the case.

I once had a job making some signs for a gallery out of old railroad ties. It was required to mortise deep into the ties. They couldn't fit on my stationary mortiser, but years ago a carpenter friend gave me a portable type like the Makita. The ties weren't square, but the mortiser worked wonderfully in the much hardened Chestnut, and with plenty enough power. Some creosote smoke that left a funny sensation at the back of my throat, but chopping by hand would have been a very undesirable alternative. Alas, my portable mortiser sits unused collecting dust. I've thought about giving it away, but as you say, there are so many used ones available, anybody that wants one likely already has it. I suspect that newer types might have more advantages as well. Just having a machine encourages wanting to use it, I find.

Chris, sorry I missed your mentioning EMS, I see that you are up on it.
De
Dennis

Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:26 pm

My apology to the members here, it occurs that I have been remiss in not introducing myself. My name is Dennis Young, and I'm a furniture maker living in Japan, a long time resident here, back again after first apprenticing when young, at a shop not far from my current location. I have been at this trade for over forty years now; seen a lot of wood dust and shavings come and go, and in a number of different countries, all with their own fine woodworking traditions that have taught me much. I build custom furniture, often influenced by tradition, but generally of my own design, I guess is an easy way to describe. My shop is in Nagano ken, a mountainous region in central Japan, not far from the castle town of Matsumoto. Anyone making it over here for a visit or whatever, I'd appreciate them stopping by. Lots of hot springs in this area as well.

Thanks for the invite to the forum, Chris.
Last edited by Dennis on Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris Hall
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Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:18 pm

Cole wrote:I love the idea of the 3 heads. The machine on Long Island has my interest peaked.

I'll ask him again for pics, and we'll see what happens. When I visited there last week I simply didn't have the time to check it out. He has it stored in a container and hasn't used it.
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Chris Hall
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Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:21 pm

Dennis wrote:Alas, my portable mortiser sits unused collecting dust. I've thought about giving it away, but as you say, there are so many used ones available, anybody that wants one likely already has it. I suspect that newer types might have more advantages as well.
It seems to me that the portable machines by Makita, Ryobi and Hitachi haven't changed at all in the last dozen years, other than certain models getting dropped.

Also, my impression is that the Japanese manufacturers are the only ones still manufacturing the hollow chisel mortising machines in any diversity. I mean, there are still companies there making them, and they seem the preferred type. Europe is mostly chain mortisers, slot mortisers, or oscillating mortisers.
De
Dennis

Re: Hollow chisel mortiser

Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:08 am

The new lad in the shop, a Tokiwa MH-30. Some improvements over the previous mortiser are spindle locks on the adjustments, larger clamp surface, a better depth stop arrangement, and a larger width capacity that will fit between the table back and the clamp. The table looks short in the photo, but it's 55cm long, which is pretty adequate for furniture work. One nice feature that I quickly noticed on this machine, is the good sized gap between the underside of the table and the ways beneath that support it. If you need to take off the clamp for more width, you can still fasten the work to the table with C clamps. which allows for horizontal movement.

I'm the second owner, but the previous one used it sparingly and respectfully. It's not so often that you can obtain a used drilling type machine where someone hasn't managed to drill into the table. :roll:

I made a simple base on casters, which adds height and stability, allows pullout for more room if needed. The machine is surprisingly heavy, made from cast iron. The rear neck is 18cm square, rather beefy. Japanese woodworking machinery tables tend to have a rather low working height.
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