Zimmermann FZ-5

[Brian]

Heavy metal, swords, Japanese carpentry.....yup, I'm in the right place

I end up thinking that way about most of the bands I like, they early stuff is usually really good. Then when they become super famous and less inspired I move on.

[durbien]

While I can appreciate that song in all its ''70s glory.. All I can hear is "Caravan."

[Chris Hall]

So, in the past couple of days I have learned that a company in the Czech Republic, TOS Kurim, made a version of the FZ-5V under license from Zimmmermann. The TOS model was called the Finesa FNK25, and typically came with a conventional size metalworking table of 11"x49".

Here's a couple of examples:

135196953a0fcc2771b0db531026560c65e28038.jpg (233.65 KiB) Viewed 3340 times

tos-fnk-25-2.jpg (74.96 KiB) Viewed 3340 times

They made these from the late 1960's up until the 1990's and more than a few were exported to North America. This means that I might have a chance of getting parts for the machine through TOS Kurim (still in business), or otherwise. These machines are pretty much identical to the Zimmermann product, save for a different upper table, lack of rotary table, and some minor differences in levers and stuff like that, and SK30 tooling instead of SK40. Instead of switching between powered left-right and powered rotation, the TOS machines are set up to have powered in-out (y-travel) instead of the rotation.

Someone has even uploaded a copy of the TOS machine manual, in English to ScribD. Unfortunately, the vital parts schematics are missing from the file online, but there was some helpful information in there nonetheless.

A company in England has an original FNK25 manual for £75, with the blue prints and schematics included. Might be worth picking up.

I also saw a Youtube video of the machine being run (for sales purposes) and noticed that the z-travel actuator seem to stay in the engaged position when the guy takes his hand off it, whereas mine requires that i hold it against a spring, otherwise it disengage:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYKNT1VJA10

I'm now wondering about what i might find were I to strip the head? The spindle sleeve (quill) is supposed to move easily up and down, and there's supposed to be a counterweighting spring in there, however mine is really stiff in action and certain i can feel no spring assistance to raise it back up.

Similarly, in the video, the guy puts the lever for left-right into the slow speed position and it holds that, while on mine I have to hold the lever in place otherwise it disengages.

[Chris Hall]

Well, I figured out what that knob on the front of the saddle does today: it is a pump oiler.

Also discovered that the secondary spindle has 8 speeds, not 2 as I originally thought. Interestingly, the high speed spindle seems to have a soft start feature, at least that seems apparent when the drive belts put the spindle in the highest speed position.

Also resolved the x-travel direction problem. Once I realized that the multi-position switch on the back of the machine was controlling spindle direction, I realized that I needed to reverse a couple of the 3-phase leads to the machine and then reverse that switch setting. And that did the trick. Everything is going the direction is should now.

Machine now seems mostly sorted out, and the only remaining issues, as far as I'm aware, are:

-none of the limit switches (for z- and x-travel) do their job. There is an electrical issue there.
-the x-travel motor gearbox seems a bit graunchy. Not sure what is going on in there, but it deserves a look-see at some point
-it leaks a little bit of oil, now that i have filled the oil reservoirs and discovered the oiler
-the quill travel is way too stiff and the quill lock is sticky. Again, likely needs a rebuild. Won't be happening anytime soon however...

[Chris Hall]

Secrets are gradually being revealed.

I discovered, quite by accident, that the electrical problems the machine seemed to have were in fact not happening. It turns out - no pun intended - that having the spindle turning is part and parcel of the function of other electrical devices. With the spindle engaged and spinning, the various limit switches do function, and the x-table travel motor works as it should. That was good to find, as it saves me having to track down electrical parts.

A new electrical issue did arise however. I obtained a light bulb for the 'start' push-button switch, and after taking the switch apart to fit the bulb found out that the bulb glass portion was longer than the original and wouldn't fit inside. $10 down the drain there. I put the switch back together and found it would no longer work. I disassembled it three more times and no improvement was realized. Perhaps I still have it wrong, but it could be a coincidence that the switch failed just then. For the time being I have to start the machine by placing a screwdriver across the switch contacts. Not what you might call convenient.

Anyway, looks like I need a new illuminated push button switch, and the other perceived electrical problems are simply not there.

And the leaking oil issue seems to be fairly minor and fairly unavoidable. After priming the oiler several times, what I am finding is that when the x-table is moved further to either side laterally, that the dovetail cast portion brings with it some drops of oil from the, er, bathing area. Those oil drops then fall to the ground. I assume that this is pretty much how things are with this machine and will just have to keep some sawdust around the base to absorb the odd drip. Possibly I have over-oiled it, and the dripping may subside if I lay off on the oil pumping for a spell. Not having a manual means I am unsure as to the recommended lubrication schedule.

I've been in touch with the folks at TOS Kurim and they sent me some scans from the parts diagram section of the manual, which was a real boon. That helped me figure out the quill locking mechanism and yesterday I was at last able to take it apart. It looks to be in good shape internally. I'm thinking I will add a spring to the middle of it, between the two cylindrical wedges, to help it open when the lever is released. The quill stiffness, unfortunately, seems to be related to other issues. I think the quill and spindle would need to be examined by a specialist at some point to determine the true conditions.

[Brian]

To give a frame of reference; When it comes to oiling the Bridgeport, it has a main oiler then some others where you squirt oil in with an oil can.

You may simply be over oiling. If I recall correctly, I pull the main oiler every use, but pretty much because I use it once every few months.

[Chris Hall]

At first I didn't know what the oiler plunger was for, as it seemed to do nothing when moved back and forth. Only after I filled the oil up in that compartment and happened to move the plunger again out of curiosity did it get charged with oil and started pumping. So, initially, I probably pumped too much oil, but since then I have left it alone. Seeing what comes out in the wash...

[Brian]

Edit my previous brain dropping to make a bit more readable.

I'm curious to know what your first project will be on this machine?

[Chris Hall]

I've already been using it a bit for the Jeff Koons stuff, just as a drill press. A very accurate and run-out free drill press

I've been in the process of simply figuring out how the machine works and don't feel ready yet to put it's through its paces.

Right now, I am trying to configure the machine so I can use a lot of my router tooling. To that end, I picked up a pair of ER25 collets. To add to the 6-8-10-12mm set, I now have 1/4" and 1/2" collets. That means I can use all my router bits.

Also, I lacked the proper size t-nuts and bolts for the table, so I have ordered those and should have them sometime this coming week. That will enable me to fasten stuff down to the work surface.

I've also been acquiring tools for the tool holders, like a special wrench for removing the lock nut off of the shell mill holder. That had to come from Germany. The one shell mill I have seems nice and sharp, but I haven't put it to wood yet to see what happens - I don't know if it will cut wood well or not. NAPGLADU seems to have a fair amount of wood-specific tooling available, mostly intended for the CNC market, so I figure they will be one likely supplier to look towards.

I've been looking at tooling catalogs, and one thing I have decided upon is to move towards insert tooling router bits. Not only are they available in stout 3/4" shank sizes, which the machine can accommodate, but in the long run will be cheaper than buying new bits all the time and should last longer, as insert tool carbide is harder than the carbide which is brazed onto tools. Further, insert tooling means maintaining dimensional tolerances when putting new knives on, instead of what you get - under tolerance - when you have router bits reground. Plus, it will be far cheaper to have custom insert knives made as opposed to custom router bits, which have been running me $130~175 a pop. Insert tooling seems like the right direction to head - it's been satisfactory so far in other uses in my shop, like the planer, jointer, and shaper.

As for uses of the FZ-5V, my imagination really is the main limitation - ways in which I can use the machine have been occurring to me all the time as I contemplate future steps with the current cabinet build. I'll definitely post up my experiments as things move along.

[Brian]

funny I practically jump to inset tooling for metal work...but for some reason until I read your post I did not really think of it as an option for woodworking bits. Thank you for planting the seed, if I tool up the Bridgeport at some point for ww'ing I will buy 3/4 shank inset bits.

I think it won't be long before you have some serious hours on that machine. The Bridgeport is one machine tool I really enjoy running, I think you'll find a similar satisfaction here.