Circular Saws?

If it has an electrical cord it is covered here.
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Chris Hall
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Re: Circular Saws?

Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:15 am

The KSS 300 seems like a nice saw, but for the money it seems a shame there's no brake. As the blade takes a while to stop spinning, there is a certain temptation to pull the saw up before the blade has stopped, and this can lead to damaging the guide rail strip. That's what I understand from looking at reviews.

I've been thinking about getting Mafel's KSS80EC with rail.
durbien
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Re: Circular Saws?

Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:47 pm

Is anyone still interested in Mafell? Amazon UK is having a "Four for the Price of Three" sale, and Mafell is included. If you were to get, say, four KSS80ec saws, since you'd only pay for three the saws end up being about $1100 each, which is $600 cheaper than you can get in NA.

What's the catch? There are three.

ONE: these are UK 230v tools, so they would need either some kind of mod or a transformer/adapter to work on US power (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Don't know if any of you are comfortable doing this kind of electrical work.. This would probably void any kind of warranty too, but if you're considering this option then you knew that already.

TWO: you'd have to pay for shipping twice - once from the UK and then a second time to the other members of the group buy (unless we were to meet somewhere - like at a workshop). Or if one member of the group buy was IN the UK then shipping to them would be free and he/she would just have to ship the other three items.

THREE: you have to find four people who don't mind catches one and two. By the end of June. Of course you could buy other things other than Mafell, and they don't all have to be the same model saw, but you maximize the savings if they are all the same.

This is being discussed on the FOG as well as the Mafell User Forum, but so far no takers (I think people are buying smaller things, but no big ticket items like saws). I must admit the electrical work scares me a bit, but the savings is fairly substantial, especially on Mafell.

I believe Mafell could also be imported from Germany at a cost lower than the NA dealer charges, but again there's the electrical issue. From the threads on the MUF, though, it may be something as simple as creating a Euro-US extension cord. I know there has been some discussion in the tool threads about using Japanese 100v tools in the US; are there similar issues? Does a new plug need to be fashioned to use Japanese tools here? How hard is it?
Last edited by durbien on Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chris Hall
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Re: Circular Saws?

Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:54 pm

The electrical issue is one of both voltage and frequency. In Europe the power is all a 50hz, while in North America it is 60hz. If the saw has electronics, the difference in frequency can possibly cause problems. Voltages are also very different in some cases. To run this equipment in N. America you would need a transformer which also outputs at 50hz from 60hz input. Such transformers exist, but for one hand-held power tool it is not cost effective.

Japan is split, half the country is 50hz while the other half is 60hz. Virtually all electrical tools there run 50/60hz dual, and the voltages are the same at 100v or 200v. 3-phase. These tools can be run on N. American 110v. or 208 3-phase without issue. The plugs for the 100 v. tools have the same 2blade prong, except instead of a grounding prong on the bottom, there is a separate ground wire with an alligator clip. It's no problem to chop the plug off and put a regular 3-prong plug on instead.

Mafell USA is solely distributed through Timberwolf tools and they tack on 40%~50% extra $$$ freely as they have exclusivity. And no other country has the same voltage and frequency combo so importing Mafell from elsewhere is problematic.
durbien
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Re: Circular Saws?

Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:05 pm

That's what I thought (the 50 vs 60 thing) but guys on the MUF are saying since it is a "Universal" motor then it will handle either frequency, but would require a new plug. Is this true?
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Chris Hall
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Re: Circular Saws?

Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:35 am

That's true, universal motors are not bothered by changes in frequency, as far as I understand it. I'm not sure though if the motor's electronic controls are similarly unaffected by different frequencies.

At the end of the day, however, Mafell produces the tools in different versions to suit different markets. In some cases the change may be nothing more than a different plug on the end of the power cable, in other cases the changes may be more significant.

A machine from Europe will definitely require a new plug.

As for how well the tool will work and last, on a different frequency, would be the risk you would take. Are there people on that forum who have brought in a Mafell tool from Europe and used it for an extended period with good success? If so, what are the specifics of voltage they supply the tool with?

And if the tool develops problems, and you are using it on a electrical supply for which the tool was not designed, you can assume zero factory support.
durbien
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Re: Circular Saws?

Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:03 pm

Chris Hall wrote:At the end of the day, however, Mafell produces the tools in different versions to suit different markets. In some cases the change may be nothing more than a different plug on the end of the power cable, in other cases the changes may be more significant.
Yeah that is the theory on the MUF - many think the U.S. 220v saw is just the Euro 230v saw with a new plug. But AFAIK there are a lot of guys on there giving advice but not many who have actually done the work.

Saving $600 on a saw is one thing. Spending $1100 on a boat anchor is another. I guess I'll pass as well.

Every Wolf has its day, it would seem.
michael langford
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Re: Circular Saws?

Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:40 pm

Wow! That was a lot of opinion about circular saws...
I'll tell you what I know about using worm-drive skilsaws, if you're still in the market for one.
Their strong point is torque, they will cut and keep cutting through just about anything. The weight is advantage in the event of kickback. New carbide blades for a 7 ¼" cost about $10. The old ones have a steel sole that gets bent easily but has much less friction than alloy. Worm drive saws with a bent shoe are really dangerous!
Most of the cuts in timber framing are either end cut-offs or tenon shoulders. You can almost cut centered 2" tenons on an 8 x 8 with a 7 ¼ saw, but you will have to finish end cuts with a handsaw. A 4' one-man crosscut works really well for that.
The newer worm drives will cut a 55º bevel...if you need to do that, a 7 ¼" blade won't quite cut through a nominal 2x rafter. Most jack rafters are 45º cuts, anyway.
The bigger Makita saws come with crappy steel shoes that get bent easily (you learn to follow the blade, not the shoe), or you can buy an after-market aluminum replacement. And, they are seriously underpowered.
Mafell saws are everything you ever wanted in a portable saw, for a price. The armature is the heaviest part so they get a bit gyroscopic, and the blade inertia is timed so that they don't need a brake. They are best suited to precise cuts on 4-square timbers.
I can't imagine why anyone would want one of those chain-saw thingies for cutting timber framing, unless they simply don't know anything about timber framing. I have known a very few people who could cut joinery with a chainsaw, but there is inevitably a lot of chiseling involved...works much better in green oak than in seasoned douglas fir or redwood.
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Chris Hall
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Re: Circular Saws?

Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:34 pm

The bigger Makita saws come with crappy steel shoes that get bent easily...
Not everywhere - the US and Canadian markets get the cheaper saw with pressed steel base. Makita makes a model with a cast aluminum base for other markets:
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They are underpowered, especially when ripping with anything but a really sharp blade. The 380mm model is a better choice IMO.
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Chris Hall
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Re: Circular Saws?

Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:40 pm

Mafell saws are everything you ever wanted in a portable saw, for a price. The armature is the heaviest part so they get a bit gyroscopic, and the blade inertia is timed so that they don't need a brake.
That's a curious statement. Many of their models do in fact have brakes, so are you suggesting the factory is putting those brakes on for no good reason?

Among their larger models, the MKS 130 Ec has a brake as does the 165 Ec and 185 Ec.

Personally, I greatly prefer having electronic motor controls and a brake on any powered tool.
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Chris Pyle
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Re: Circular Saws?

Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:37 pm

Not sure if anyone is interested but here's Sim Ayers review of a new Skilsaw Sawsquath 10.25 in wormdrive. If you plan on working with something bigger than the traditional 2x4.

http://www.jlconline.com/saws/skilsaw-s ... ive_o.aspx

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