Importing Machinery from Europe to the US

[Chris Hall]

I title this "...importing to the US", however I think the same general considerations apply if you are importing to other countries like Wallaby, Kiwi, Canuckistan, etc.

If you are looking for heavy duty well made shop machinery, then it is hard to beat what is available out of Germany, and the place to look is machine-seeker:

http://www.machineseeker.com/2.html

I think, given the selection of quality woodworking equipment in the US, which is not really all that awe-inspiring, it is worth looking further afield. I've been looking for a Martin tablesaw for a couple of years now, and they are scarce on the US used market - ditto for any Martin machine. The odd one does come available, however if it is not specified with the options I am looking for, I give it a miss. If it came out of a furniture factory running three shifts a day I will give it a miss. And then sometimes the right machine appears but the pricing is only slightly less than a brand new machine, which makes no sense.

I have found the equipment selection in Europe much better and the prices reasonable for the most part. Add into the mix the strong US dollar and weak Euro, and prices are looking even more attractive.

One thing about buying used equipment is always consider what the parts supply is going to be like. In most cases, obtaining regular wear items like belts and bearings is no problem, however if you want to obtain factory accessory items, you are likely to be out of luck. A lot of machinery manufacturers have gone out of business over the past 30 years, and you would be wise to consider the question of parts support.

So, find a machine that is spec'd as you would like as a starting point. In Europe, I have found most of the saws come heavily-optioned anyway, so it is not such an issue. Maybe more a problem is getting a machine that is not festooned with every option.

I would say the typical German used machine is in better shape than the typical used US machine. I would put that down to cultural factors leading to more frequent maintenance and better trade training in Germany which produces more highly skilled equipment operators. These are general observations only.

So, if you come across a machine that you like, you first have to make contact with the dealer, which is easy to do on machine seeker though a built-in inquiry form. It doesn't mean however that you will get a reply. Sometimes the dealer doesn't feel comfortable communicating in English, or maybe the machine has been sold already and they haven't taken the ad down, or maybe the company selling the machine went out of business. I've had all three situations. I've found it very helpful to be able to enlist the services of a German-speaking friend of mine to make inquiries directly. Very helpful indeed.

You may be able to negotiate on price, maybe not. I think it depends on a few different factors, and surely one of them is how long the seller has had the machine in inventory.

If you find the machine you want and agree to a price, then the next issue is getting the machine crated for export. This has to be done by a specialist company or someone suitable accredited to do the work. The packaging materials must meet criteria for being pest-free, which usually means the wood has been kiln dried at least. If the crate comes into the US without the correct approved packaging, it will likely be destroyed, at your expense. Yes, insult added to injury, so best to avoid that route.

The days of buying a few machines and sticking them all into one container, getting as much in there as possible, are gone. Now, every item must be crated or boxed, palletized, and bar-coded.

Then you'll have to figure out a way to get the item to a port for shipping, and you'll also need to get in touch with a customs brokerage company to handle the importation paperwork. This does not come free of course, but the costs are reasonable enough. The last machine I imported from Japan wasn't taxed by customs. I think whether duties apply or not depends upon the value of the machine. Certainly i would expect a new machine to be subject to some tariff.

One of the issues that has been a sticking point for me with the European machines has been the voltage and frequency difference. In my shop I have 3-phase power on tap, and it is 208v, 60 HZ. Most European machines are going to be 400v and 50 Hz.

With the older and simpler machines, the voltage issue can sometimes be handled simply be swapping the machine's motor out. If there are significant electrics on the machine though, this option may not be the best course. If you buy more than one machine, or plan to do so, then having a separate power supply set up might be the ticket. The item you would need is a step-up transformer which can take a 60 HZ input and output at 50HZ. I have been doing some looking around and there is a company which makes step up transformers specifically for this application, called Temco:

http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/pro ... tion-guide

Problem solved, at a cost of course.

I'm sure there are others supplying similar equipment, but I doubt the pricing will be hugely different, and Temco offers convenient ordering right off their website. The saw I've been looking at draws 15amps, and you should size the step-up transformer to have a bit more output than this, as sometimes motor starting loads can peak a little higher than the amperage rating. Transformers are rated on the basis of kVA output, however it is simple to look up in their tables to find a suitable model. They make then with copper windings or aluminum windings. Copper is better generally speaking, but more expensive. Aluminum is cheaper, but has poorer corrosion resistance, however for indoor use this generally is not going to be an issue.

[Steve]

Nice tools ... do you have any rough idea what shipping costs would be per CBM? I am thinking it would be a bit more to import from Europe to the West coast?

[Chris Hall]

I don't know the cubic meter costs, and I think they calculate based on dimensional weight anyhow for things like this. Obviously, a cubic meter of beach balls should be cheaper to ship than a cubic meter filled with cast iron machinery.

To ship to the west coast would either involve shipping to an East Coast port and then trucking/train across the country, or shipping through the Panama Canal and up to LA. Not sure which would be cheaper or quicker, generally speaking.

[ernest dubois]

It is difficult to be empirical on a subject like what is a suitable machine for everyone, mainly from the perspective of the the infinite number of users expectations, so maybe you'll have to bear with my subjective notions. The "Germans", you know, whatever than means, have cultivated a well enough deserved reputation around industrial production and engineering knowledge and they make fine woodworking machines and for whatever reason continue doing it in one form or another even now where other places have largely abandon industrial production. But since we're going on here about used woodworking machinery produced in Europe I will say that for a certain type machine the Swedish made ones or English may even top the German quality. Personally, of the few simple machines I have two are Dutch made and these are quite sturdy, reliable machines. I just throw these ideas out as further options for the one who is inclined to look into this route, not to promote even the whole concept.

[Mathieu]

Ernest, yes I believe you are right. The Germans are good machine producers but not the only ones. Even in Belgium we can make very nice machines. Danckaert used to be top of the line and Philips-Constant still is. Definitely as good as Martin and also those machines would cost an arm and a leg if you buy them new today.
http://philipsconstant.com/nl/aboutus/eigen-productie

[Chris Hall]

Oh I didn't mean to suggest only Germany produced excellent machinery, but by and large I would say they produce most of the best machinery in Europe, from what I have seen. I realize that there may be others from other countries, but how many of those still are making machines? How about parts for those machines?

I've often wondered about quality woodworking machines from Switzerland, but haven't come across much in that regard. Seems odd.

Hadn't come across Phillips constant before, however they only seem to produce one machine, a jointer-planer, and I notice it has a German Aigner fence and blade guard.

As an aside, Martin uses some Japanese equipment in their factory, so obviously for certain things, even they might consider the best equipment is coming from outside Germany.

[Paul Atzenweiler]

I have a tablesaw that I bought new about 25 years ago. It is a brand that would probably be scoffed at here. I have used and abused it and it still produces predictably quality cuts. I think people should get the best tools they can afford and I probably would buy a different saw today. All that said, I don't think not having "the best" should keep people from diving into their craft. I would love to drive a Bentley but that doesn't mean my Toyota can't get me where I want to go.

[ernest dubois]

Lamello is Swiss. Hey there you go, a top quality nasty wafer joiner.

They invented the concept:the only new idea in woodworking for the past couple hundred years.

[MarekS.]

Hi everyone,
if any of You are interested in Polish machines for wood (these companies have very long tradition and for sure, You can find something for You with very high quality) below are links:
http://www.gomad.pl/en/
http://rema-sa.pl/onas
http://jaroma.com.pl/pl/
Marek

[Paul Atzenweiler]

MarekS, those Polish tools looks very nice. I want them all.