Craftsmanship in Wood

Now that I have space for a shop, I've been on the lookout for used tools. There is a gentleman nearby selling a 16" Moak that I'm going to see next week. Has anyone used one of these? I'll be doing a lot of searches over on OWWM but he said he replaced the bearings and has a phase converter for it so it's at least worth checking out.

I know the beds are a bit shorter than preferred and the cutterhead isn't anything special, ie - down the line, I may need to attempt surgery for a tersa or helical cutterhead.

Right now, I have a little Inca 12" jointer/planer that is pretty nice for small stuff but even full width maple panels tended to tax this thing. Using the planer can be a bit tricky as it can bog down without warning, despite only taking a light pass so I'd like to find some more "industrial" equipment.

I know Chris H. had some issues with old jointer on hardwood floors but mine is concrete in a garage.

Anyone care to chime in with thoughts?

I guess I'm not a fan of the old iron, and that Moak on Woodweb is one ugly machine after the metallic silver and green paint. $3900 seems a little high priced for that. At least it has the 3-point footprint. The fence does not look straight, though it is very long. I contacted that seller before about another machine and did not find him especially helpful after asking for more information.

Would recommend you get something newer with a Tersa cutterhead if possible. These are big heavy machines - choose wisely and you only have to move it once.

Is this machine workable with your budget?:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83204.html

Worth the money for the German jointer - and you'd get a 9' bed, 20" width and quick-change knives. Like the style of jointer guard on that machine as well, same as on my Martin. Seriously, well worth the extra $1600 over the Moak.

No Tersa, but this one looks like a good deal for $3500:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83346.html

You could upgrade the cutter head later on.

As far as the old American iron goes, I gather that the best two makes were Porter and Northfield.

Chris Hall wrote:I guess I'm not a fan of the old iron, and that Moak on Woodweb is one ugly machine after the metallic silver and green paint. $3900 seems a little high priced for that. At least it has the 3-point footprint. The fence does not look straight, though it is very long. I contacted that seller before about another machine and did not find him especially helpful after asking for more information.

Would recommend you get something newer with a Tersa cutterhead if possible. These are big heavy machines - choose wisely and you only have to move it once.

Is this machine workable with your budget?:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83204.html

Worth the money for the German jointer - and you'd get a 9' bed, 20" width and quick-change knives. Like the style of jointer guard on that machine as well, same as on my Martin. Seriously, well worth the extra $1600 over the Moak.

No Tersa, but this one looks like a good deal for $3500:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83346.html

You could upgrade the cutter head later on.

As far as the old American iron goes, I gather that the best two makes were Porter and Northfield.

Thanks Chris, I really like that Schneider and the RGA is nice as well. The RGA looks like an SCMI, especially with that naming convention SC410. The Moak I've found isn't the one on woodweb, it's priced around $2700 with phase converter and doesn't appear to be abused by the pictures (we'll see on closer inspection)

Having said that, I need to talk with the wife. The Schneider is nice but my home won't have access to 3ph as far as I know so I'd need to find a phase converter which I'm sure won't be cheap. Same goes for the RGA, especially given that a Tersa cutterhead is not cheap to retrofit. Given the cost of a tersa head, the Schneider and RGA may be about the same cost long term.

Chris,

My father used something called a phase inverter for his Bridgeport milling machine. Not sure if this is something you are interested in, but I remember him having specific reasoning for the inverter over the converter. I can post pics of the install next time I'm over at his shop.

Brian wrote:Chris,

My father used something called a phase inverter for his Bridgeport milling machine. Not sure if this is something you are interested in, but I remember him having specific reasoning for the inverter over the converter. I can post pics of the install next time I'm over at his shop.

Thanks Brian, that would be great whenever you have time. I'm not very knowledgeable about the differences between the two. I've just always heard people suggest a converter. I'll do some searching to better understand what they do.


Has anyone worked with freight companies in the US? What were your experiences? Did they have gatelift service? Would you mind sharing distance or cost?

I still like the little Japanese Makita side by side jointer/planer and believe it'd do 95% of what I need but without a "group buy" or other means of trimming costs, I'm afraid it wouldn't be the prudent move. From what I recall, they were roughly $6k new, then add on $4-5k to crate and ship overseas. Do these numbers sound about right?

I'm absolutely shocked no one has become a dealer and brought over a shipping container of these. Or does this have to do with trade restrictions? It seems like it'd definitely fill a niche market.

Chris Pyle wrote: Has anyone worked with freight companies in the US? What were your experiences? Did they have gatelift service? Would you mind sharing distance or cost?

Generally negative experiences, but whatcha gonna do? I'd try Yellow Freight first I guess. You can always get lift gate delivery, but it does cost a little more. I'd suggest full value insurance for a jointer, and have it crated before shipment if possible.

Chris Pyle wrote:I still like the little Japanese Makita side by side jointer/planer and believe it'd do 95% of what I need but without a "group buy" or other means of trimming costs, I'm afraid it wouldn't be the prudent move. From what I recall, they were roughly $6k new, then add on $4-5k to crate and ship overseas. Do these numbers sound about right?

I'm absolutely shocked no one has become a dealer and brought over a shipping container of these. Or does this have to do with trade restrictions? It seems like it'd definitely fill a niche market.

If they did bring over a container of new machines, Makita USA would sue their ass, then Makita Japan would go after the vendor there.

Chris Pyle wrote:Thanks Chris, I really like that Schneider and the RGA is nice as well. The RGA looks like an SCMI, especially with that naming convention SC410. The Moak I've found isn't the one on woodweb, it's priced around $2700 with phase converter and doesn't appear to be abused by the pictures (we'll see on closer inspection)

Having said that, I need to talk with the wife. The Schneider is nice but my home won't have access to 3ph as far as I know so I'd need to find a phase converter which I'm sure won't be cheap. Same goes for the RGA, especially given that a Tersa cutterhead is not cheap to retrofit. Given the cost of a tersa head, the Schneider and RGA may be about the same cost long term.

The phase converter is a $1000 proposition, however it does open up a range of industrial machinery you could get for your shop. Look on Ebay for a used one and I'm sure you'll find something. There are also DIY versions where you rig up a single phase motor to spin a 3-phase generator. Phase converters will require a separate electrical panel.

You could also retrofit the Schneider with a single phase 5 horsepower motor, though 7.5 h.p. is about ideal for a 20" jointer.

$4600 for a Martin T-51, with quick change knife system:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83652.html

I've worked with that dealer before- he's a good guy. I wouldn't waste any time as this machine won't last long at that price. He also has a listing for a 24" Panhans planer:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83653.html

Chris Hall wrote:$4600 for a Martin T-51, with quick change knife system:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83652.html

I've worked with that dealer before- he's a good guy. I wouldn't waste any time as this machine won't last long at that price. He also has a listing for a 24" Panhans planer:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83653.html

Wow, that looks like a really nice price for a Martin. I've seen mixed reviews on the Esta knives but I'm guessing that is a minor quibble for such a fine machine. I'll reach out to him to see what we can work out. Thanks for the find and reference Chris!

Chris Hall wrote:$4600 for a Martin T-51, with quick change knife system:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83652.html

I've worked with that dealer before- he's a good guy. I wouldn't waste any time as this machine won't last long at that price. He also has a listing for a 24" Panhans planer:

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/machin ... 83653.html

Just replying back to this, I submitted a message through woodweb to Ed about the Martin. I haven't heard back yet but I'll keep this thread updated. If it's already sold or it costs too much to ship, then I may fall back to the local Moak.

Like I said, updates are forthcoming.