I'm contemplating a few different mortisers. Given the choice between a Cresent, a powermatic 10 and a Fay&Egan....all foot pedal machines, which would you chose?
Not sure I'll end up doing anything but torturing myself for the moment as I really, really want a mortiser and I'm not convinced that a powermatic 719T is right....though it would fit into my basement shop so I can avoid more frozen trips to the garage.
I like to incorporate square pegs into my work these days, there seems to be no great way to cut these by hand that doesn't involve much suffering, if not for that I can manage to cut mortises by hand without too much grief.
Chris, you've used a powermatic 719, but I read a few areas where you prefer something else, if you dont mind my asking what do you dislike the 719?
Thank you for putting up with my line of questioning.
Cheers
Brian
Big Mortiser
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Jon B
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
Post
Re: Big Mortiser
I have no personal experience with any of the machines you listed Brian, however I'm also interested in a older mortiser and recently spoke with someone who owned a Powermatic model 10. They spoke highly of it, and didn't have any complaints other than that apparently is doesn't have a depth stop. I'm not sure if something was missing because it was an old machine or if they truly never had a depth stop. However, it sounded like it was a bit of a pain to cut stopped mortises without one.
Just my two cents worth,
Jon
Just my two cents worth,
Jon
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Jon B
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
Post
Re: Big Mortiser
I forgot to mention that he said he also needed to have bushings machined in order to use newer hollow chisels.
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Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
Post
Re: Big Mortiser
The Powermatic 719 is a piece of junk if you ask me.
The table tilts one direction which is half-useful, half infuriating when you need to do angled mortises.
The cast column has a dovetail which is crudely machined -- instead of machine cleanly and then scrape in oil pockets, they just machine it really coarsely. After a time metal shards start peeling off of the gib and jamming in the space between, necessitating strip down. The side-to-side control stops are located under the table in such a way that one can hardly get one's fingers in there to tighten/loosen them - why? I hate machines made like junk. It will work for a while for you, but not built to last at all. A disposable product.
* I may wish to mention that I have come to detest anything sickly/puke yellow Powermatic. The newer stuff is cheap godawful shit (I've had experience with the 719, along with one of their shapers) and even when they were made (supposedly) with better materials and machining, their designs were not what you might call advanced. I'm fatally biased against them now, confirmation bias fully hardened off. There is no longer any possibility for me that Powermatic ever made anything worth having.
If you're going to get that quality of machine, I've had better experience with the General International unit, which does at least tilt both directions.
Choices are poor for hollow chisel mortisers these days. There are top quality new ones still made in Japan by Tokiwa. There are also older cast iron ones from various manufacturers on the used market there which would serve very well.
If you're considering antique iron - machines of that size and weight - then a good option would be the last domestically-produced mortiser, the 220 model made by General in Quebec. They're around and are decent. There was one for sale in CT for the longest time.
As for the old 'arn, I guess the best domestic choice looks to have been the Wysong and Miles 284. I'm sure those old 'arn folks would argue over which one was best and I have no horses in that race.
If you're willing to look further afield, you might want to consider a Wadkin DMV. The British Brookman Hydraulectric morticer is another nicely made machine, though rare.
The table tilts one direction which is half-useful, half infuriating when you need to do angled mortises.
The cast column has a dovetail which is crudely machined -- instead of machine cleanly and then scrape in oil pockets, they just machine it really coarsely. After a time metal shards start peeling off of the gib and jamming in the space between, necessitating strip down. The side-to-side control stops are located under the table in such a way that one can hardly get one's fingers in there to tighten/loosen them - why? I hate machines made like junk. It will work for a while for you, but not built to last at all. A disposable product.
* I may wish to mention that I have come to detest anything sickly/puke yellow Powermatic. The newer stuff is cheap godawful shit (I've had experience with the 719, along with one of their shapers) and even when they were made (supposedly) with better materials and machining, their designs were not what you might call advanced. I'm fatally biased against them now, confirmation bias fully hardened off. There is no longer any possibility for me that Powermatic ever made anything worth having.
If you're going to get that quality of machine, I've had better experience with the General International unit, which does at least tilt both directions.
Choices are poor for hollow chisel mortisers these days. There are top quality new ones still made in Japan by Tokiwa. There are also older cast iron ones from various manufacturers on the used market there which would serve very well.
If you're considering antique iron - machines of that size and weight - then a good option would be the last domestically-produced mortiser, the 220 model made by General in Quebec. They're around and are decent. There was one for sale in CT for the longest time.
As for the old 'arn, I guess the best domestic choice looks to have been the Wysong and Miles 284. I'm sure those old 'arn folks would argue over which one was best and I have no horses in that race.
If you're willing to look further afield, you might want to consider a Wadkin DMV. The British Brookman Hydraulectric morticer is another nicely made machine, though rare.
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Brian
- Deshi
Post
Re: Big Mortiser
Thanks Chris, I appreciate your insights. I'm not surprised to hear that the 719t is a POS, I visited the PM booth at a recent woodworking show and while they did not have the 719, they did have other tools, safe to say I was non-plussed.
This has been a short but daunting pursuit, and I may be over-reaching by thinking that I can fit one of these big machines into either one of my shops (garage or basement).
Do other options exist? Such as a decent bench top mortiser of any make (old iron I assume).
This has been a short but daunting pursuit, and I may be over-reaching by thinking that I can fit one of these big machines into either one of my shops (garage or basement).
Do other options exist? Such as a decent bench top mortiser of any make (old iron I assume).
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Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
Post
Re: Big Mortiser
I tend to think the terms "bench top mortiser' and "old iron" are mutually exclusive...
Finding a good hollow chisel mortiser is not easy these days.
You could consider a slot mortiser or JDS multi-router and then squaring up by chisel.
Finding a good hollow chisel mortiser is not easy these days.
You could consider a slot mortiser or JDS multi-router and then squaring up by chisel.
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Brian
- Deshi
Post
Re: Big Mortiser
Fair point, and that has certainly been my experience thus far.
I'd rather avoid another router, they're a bit loud for home shop use. One of the nice things about a HCM is that they're not especially loud.
I'd rather avoid another router, they're a bit loud for home shop use. One of the nice things about a HCM is that they're not especially loud.
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Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
-
Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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