Building a shop

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John Whitley
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Re: Building a shop

Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:03 am

A small sliding table saw just landed in the shop. I finally “got” how a slider can be leveraged for solid wood work, and realized that it largely replaces and/or improves upon every jig I’ve made or used for my work on cabinet saws. We’ll see how it goes. It’s a used saw, so its main aspect is currently a post-move pile of parts.

Work is underway to get power and dust collection sorted out.
Matt J
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Re: Building a shop

Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:06 am

What model, and how small is 'small'?
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Chris Hall
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Re: Building a shop

Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:37 pm

John Whitley wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:03 am
A small sliding table saw just landed in the shop. I finally “got” how a slider can be leveraged for solid wood work, and realized that it largely replaces and/or improves upon every jig I’ve made or used for my work on cabinet saws.

That's a good understanding to come to, as a lot of people in the US seem to envision the use of a sliding table saw only as a tool for sheet goods.

Matt J wrote:What model, and how small is 'small'?

The smallest Euro sliders come with 1400mm~1500mm tables. Various companies make/made them. Here's a machine from Minimax for example:

https://www.scmgroup.com/en_US/scmwood/ ... -sc-2g.706

I have my eye on a 1999 Martin for sale in Germany. It's their 'short stroke' model with a 2200mm table, no scoring motor. I guess I should have bought tickets for the Powerball lottery...
John Whitley
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Re: Building a shop

Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:55 pm

I have pretty much the most entry-level compact saw I know of: a Grizzly G0623X3. It's got the larger 7.5HP 3-phase motor, but that's about it by way of frills. The sliding table is just 63"/1600mm, so very reasonable in size. I had been looking at compact European saws, but this showed up on the local used market and I jumped. Worst case: it'll be a perfect "testing the waters" saw; it's one of the few sliders that uses 5/8" arbor blades (10" only), so I can use my existing stable of blades. Well, except the dovetail grind blade, which is left tilt while this saw is a right tilt.

Even if I end up upgrading in the relatively near term, this will be a good way to really get used to a slider in practice and understand what I want out of a better caliber saw.
John Whitley
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Re: Building a shop

Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:23 pm

Chris Hall wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:37 pm
That's a good understanding to come to, as a lot of people in the US seem to envision the use of a sliding table saw only as a tool for sheet goods.
This time around, I found some good resources on YouTube that provided the needed head-shaping. Slow golf clap to Steve Rowe, aka ExtremeWoodworker, in particular for a great series of vids. Also for being Martin's top-notch unpaid US sales team. :D

I have my eye on a 1999 Martin for sale in Germany. It's their 'short stroke' model with a 2200mm table, no scoring motor. I guess I should have bought tickets for the Powerball lottery...
Yeah, I was ogling the T60C w/ 1900mm table on Martin's website. That kind of engineering doesn't come cheap. Assuming a winning lottery ticket is forthcoming, would you intent the Martin to replace your current crosscut table saw?
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Chris Hall
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Re: Building a shop

Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:59 pm

Oh yeah, in a heartbeat. The Wadkin has issues which $3000 is likely to be required to sort out. I'd rather just buy something else, but if I can't swing the Martin + shipping from Germany, then I'll probably put the money into the Wadkin.
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Chris Hall
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Re: Building a shop

Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:10 pm

John Whitley wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:23 pm

This time around, I found some good resources on YouTube that provided the needed head-shaping. Slow golf clap to Steve Rowe, aka ExtremeWoodworker, in particular for a great series of vids. Also for being Martin's top-notch unpaid US sales team. :D
I hadn't heard of that guy, so I checked out his channel. Looks like a well-to-do hobby woodworker with lots of shiny tools. Not sure what exactly constitutes 'extreme'. The Martin T-60 Classic is a lighter duty saw - it's fine generally, but the rip fence is, by Martin standards, flimsy.
John Whitley
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Re: Building a shop

Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:07 pm

Chris Hall wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:10 pm
I hadn't heard of that guy, so I checked out his channel. Looks like a well-to-do hobby woodworker with lots of shiny tools.
I’ll admit that was exactly my thought, until I watched more of his vids. Now I think he’s more likely a pro. Seems that he’s been at it for 30+ years, esp. talk of specific tools (literally) paying for themselves, taking professional-level workshops, doing on-site vs. in-shop work, etc. I’m admittedly curious about his business now, and how (whether?) it funds that shop. Given that I’m far from making my own shop pay its way, I have zero room to criticize.
The Martin T-60 Classic is a lighter duty saw - it's fine generally, but the rip fence is, by Martin standards, flimsy.
Does that matter as much on a slider? With cabinet saws, the rip fence needs strong lateral support, since it’s taking lateral force in its role as a reference face. But with sliders, it seems that the main workholding is mostly associated with the sliding table, with the rip fence acting more like a setup stop block. (Unless, of course, you need to do a cabinet-saw style ripping operation.)

Speaking of flimsy fences, I expect to use the stock one on the Grizzly for a little while. If/when it offends me, I may swap it out for a VSC tools Euro-style fence. That’s a bit of a pain, since it requires fabrication and installation of a Biesemeyer-style rail system. A better solution likely requires a better saw.
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Chris Hall
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Re: Building a shop

Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:31 am

Well, I prefer a fence which doesn't move when you push on it, and if you only have one saw in your shop, and it is a sliding saw, then the rip fence will be used. It's too bad with Martin that you don't get a serious rip fence until you hit the T70 level, though I think for the US market they were talking about an option for the T65 to have the rip fence from the T70 fitted. Not sure if that came to pass.

The T60 is something like 2000 lbs lighter than the T70, to give you an idea. It's still a decent saw, and better than most others out there, but a shadow of the T70 (and priced accordingly).

The fence on my Wadkin, while plenty stout, is heavy and not at all easy to slide back on forth, and I worry about throwing my back out just moving the fence. It's capacity to tilt is something I find I never use. I have plans to replace it by building a rip fence for it using linear rails and bearings, which will necessitate a trip to the machine shop for the main tables. The Wadkin PP Dimension saw has good bones, but could be improved in various ways for sure.
Matt J
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Re: Building a shop

Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:49 am

I've noticed, and wondered why most Euro rip fences are pretty much a joke (looking at you, Mafell). I'm starting to think they don't do much ripping...

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