Possible Mortiser Acquisition

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Brian
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:03 am

Once I have the mortising attachment in hand I will post detailed photos. That way if they do not provide something maybe you'll Be able to see if it can be adapted somehow.

The chuck looks similar, it’s enclosed on the Felder but appears exposed on the Hofmann. The enclosure is super annoying so it’s possible that having a mortising chuck at least eliminates dealing with the enclosure so often.

Thanks for your comments on the chisels, if it starts to become a reality I will look a bit closer.

WRT the Zimmerman, Just my opinion but the devil you know is better than the one you don’t. I’d imagine after all said and done you’d be swapping one set of problems for another. I would imagine that rebuilding one section of the machine at a time, even including a few specialty tools, would be money way ahead of buying another machine and dealing with shipping from Europe on it and somehow selling off your current machine.
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 am

Daruma wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:54 am
I would imagine the vertical on that machine would handle most angled mortises for smaller pieces but you`re definitely right about long timbers being a headache if even a possibility at all.

I have often thought about trying to use my beam mortiser for angled mortises on larger members.

The awkwardness of the clamping and the overall power of the machine has continually steered me away from the idea though as it could potentially be quite destructive or dangerous. Still I toy with the possibility as it would greatly reduce the time spent doing them by hand. If only I could convince myself it would`t budge under pressure....maybe its just wishful thinking?


That Bell is a beast...I like the fact the name is just 81 as it seems to make the machine even more brute. I had a look around too for a Bell mortiser and could only find thishttp://www.classicmachineworks.com/mach ... mortiser-0
I've used my Makita portable beam mortiser at times, just as you are suggesting. Put it this way: it's not the perfect solution. Chisels smaller than 12.7mm require adapters which make the overall chisel longer and decrease cutting height. The clamping is a problem. Setting up is a hassle. I've made it work before, on some Yellow Cedar stair stringers being mortised for a balustrade, but it is a PITA.
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:04 am

Brian wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:03 am
Once I have the mortising attachment in hand I will post detailed photos. That way if they do not provide something maybe you'll Be able to see if it can be adapted somehow.

The chuck looks similar, it’s enclosed on the Felder but appears exposed on the Hofmann. The enclosure is super annoying so it’s possible that having a mortising chuck at least eliminates dealing with the enclosure so often.

Thanks for your comments on the chisels, if it starts to become a reality I will look a bit closer.

WRT the Zimmerman, Just my opinion but the devil you know is better than the one you don’t. I’d imagine after all said and done you’d be swapping one set of problems for another. I would imagine that rebuilding one section of the machine at a time, even including a few specialty tools, would be money way ahead of buying another machine and dealing with shipping from Europe on it and somehow selling off your current machine.
Looking forward to learning more about how well your machine works with the hollow chisel. Is it correct that Felder has discontinued the option?

Hofmann also has a collet chuck option instead of the conventional chuck for the end mills, which offers greater precision and clamping range, and that appeals to me.

WRT to the Zimmermann, you make some good points, the same ones I have muttered myself more than once. I know, like my Wadkin saw, that selling it as it stands is likely to be a losing proposition. But I do circle back to the one for sale, as it was used in a large corporate prototyping shop, so not run full time, and it does not apparently leak any oil. It also has a much more ergonomic operating system, plus powered 'Y' travel, which are very attractive. And it has a more modern electrical system without ceramic fuses. So, I am tempted to take the risk and then my current machine becomes, at worst, a spare part machine, and/or a machine I can, at my leisure, take apart and rebuild, which would be a perfect way to learn, without the pressure of having to get it back into shop service. Once rebuilt, i will have learned a bunch, and can resell the machine in good working order. Does that not also make a modicum of sense? It does on some days of the week for me at least!

All in all, it's a frickin' conundrum man.....
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Brian
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:11 am

The Felder option is still available, they just put near zero effort into advertising it for obvious reasons. I’m actually quite convinced most people use these machines for line boring more than any other task.

That does make sense and a corporate prototyping machine does sound appealing . That is the scenario in which my Bridgeport came from, it was babied to say the least.
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:06 pm

Another rationalization is that, given that any used machine is an unknown, and it isn't enough of an expense to justify flying over to inspect it, i have to anticipate it will not be as perfect as i might hope. I will anticipate it operates though, and will ensure, via having a video taken, that is does work in all modes. Even if i have problems with it, at least then I am in a position of having two machines and thus from two one surely can put together one good one if you had to. Sounds good in theory at least.

The things is, complaints about unexpected problems with new machines aside, and non-existent factory parts support, it is worse by far to buy a new machine and then have problems and then get no support from the company! I've certainly heard of that happening before (i.e., Laguna Tools)
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Brian
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:50 pm

True, buying a new tool comes with a totally unique set of expectations that do not come along with an older tool. My Kapex, for instance, I spoke with customer service about the miter gauge slipping and they offered zero support. If it were an older machine I would have drilled the holes, cut larger threads and worked a large washer face machine screw and been done with it in 10 minutes and an order from McMaster. Instead I spent that time on the phone and to no real effect. Ultimately I ended up putting washers under the bolt faces and that (so far) cured the problem. it's remained within adjustment for a couple weeks of daily use now.

Compare to the lathe where I had to make all kinds of stuff and buy things and that has not bothered me one bit.
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:52 am

All one can hope for with a used machine is that any problems it may have are solvable without huge investments of time or money.

My Wadkin having a bowed sliding table is not in that category however.
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:56 am

Well, my idea about getting that other Zimmermann mill seems less attractive. Communication with the seller revealed he is unwilling to go below 6000€, so with shipping crating etc., it's just a bit too expensive. So, doesn't rule it out completely, but I'll be looking to other avenues for the time being.

Still haven't received any follow up from the guy in England with the Brookman morticer - what is it with some people selling equipment? Are they selling, or only kinda selling?
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Brian
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:08 pm

That price seems pretty high to me as well, the pricing on manually operated mills is pretty low now. I had thought to sell my Bridgeport for more woodworking centric machinery, until I investigated the common selling price which is about $3500-$4000. That machine is way bigger than a Bridgeport, which is not an advantage if your selling it. I would imagine 5000-6000usd would be about max. So about 25% discount from their pricing.
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Re: Possible Mortiser Acquisition

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:38 am

Brian wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:08 pm
That price seems pretty high to me as well, the pricing on manually operated mills is pretty low now. I had thought to sell my Bridgeport for more woodworking centric machinery, until I investigated the common selling price which is about $3500-$4000. That machine is way bigger than a Bridgeport, which is not an advantage if your selling it. I would imagine 5000-6000usd would be about max. So about 25% discount from their pricing.
Yeah, I offered them 4000 euros.

There was an even nicer one for sale about 5 months ago for 5000 euros, but it sold - which surprised me. It had a roller cabinet full of tooling for an additional 1000 euros.

I've been looking at dozens and dozens of different milling machine options, including building my own and CNC machines. I haven't quite figured it out. I'm having the same issue with sliding saws.

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