Thanks Chris.
I was considering the two approaches. One being to use a kiwa-kanna with mitre shooting board, as mentioned by djwong above, and the other being a tome ganna. With the tome ganna, I would assume depending on the rate of usage, the angles would have to kept consistently accurate when conditioning the plane, which without any experience, I wouldn't know the frequency of. Whilst, at least to my inexperienced eyes, the kiwa kanna looks to be a little easier to maintain, as the angles are split between between the mitre board and the flat of the plane. This is perhaps why in all the videos I've found, the most common approach appears to use the kiwa kanna.
Now I'm considering whether the Veritas skew block plane http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-skew ... e-ax823079 or a kiwa kanna such as this one http://www.fine-tools.com/jfasen.html is the better option.
Tool and tool source suggestions
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
In regards to keeping a tome ganna or a kiwa ganna tuned, I would say they are of equal difficulty.
- Vips
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
Thanks Chris. I've ordered Desmond King's book which apparently details the setup of a kiwa kanna.
I was wondering, for those of you out there which have made the transition between western planes and kanna, how many of you still use your western planes? Are there any particular tasks or woods which you still reach for them as opposed to a kanna? I'm trying to get an idea of what my approach may be once I delve into the world of Kanna.
I was wondering, for those of you out there which have made the transition between western planes and kanna, how many of you still use your western planes? Are there any particular tasks or woods which you still reach for them as opposed to a kanna? I'm trying to get an idea of what my approach may be once I delve into the world of Kanna.
- Jon B
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
- Location: Brooklyn, NY
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
I think your approach will totally depend on your assortment of planes and the type of work you are doing. Since I started using a Japanese block plane and smoothing planes I haven't touched my western smoothing plane at all nor really my western block plane. My western smoother was never very good which is a big reason why I haven't been using it. Occasionally I will reach for my Lee Valley Jack plane to joint an edge and I do use my Lee Valley rabbet plane quite often but I also don't have a kiwa-kanna yet.
- Vips
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
I have a Veritas bevel up smoother and jack plane both outfitted with PMV11 blades. They perform well but I don't particularly like the PMV11 steel. I've honed them at various angles and found that I get chipping of the edge not before long. They do remain sharper than the A2 steels, but they're nothing special. I will decide what their fate will be once I've finally decided on a Kanna.
- Brian
- Deshi
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
I do still use my western planes, I really enjoy my western wooden planes for jointing and thicknessing. I use a western finish plane along with my kanna depending on the wood to be planed. As I increase the number of options that I have with Kanna I will reduce my reliance upon metal planes. Why? Because I find wooden planes much more enjoyable to use.
The way that my efforts are going I will make the transition to Nagadai kanna and a planing beam for much of my work.
Push and pull, when combined with shooting boards, tend to rely upon other similar tools. A shooting board can be hooked to a bench and so its used with push planes and saws, but one which is held by a planing beam or stop on a bench can utilize pull planes and saws. So it's difficult to completely transition without completely transitioning.
I find myself not necessarily of the mind to eliminate my western planes, I enjoy them, but I do wish to eliminate most of my western backsaws. I find the dozuki and ryoba saws much more nimble than backsaws and so make the workflow move along quickly, I will typically use these with a shooting board....so you see where my dilemma is. Ahh well....all in due time.
Japanese saws, especially the better ones, are hollowed in the center, so are old western panel saws. My old Disston is wonderful to use but current day panel saws just do not live up, I found them very frustrating to use, while even inexpensive ryobas are very easy to use.
Giving up my heavy iron planes like the #7 jointer is really not much of a loss, it's a bear to use all day, while a wooden plane (western or eastern) is a dream to use.
That being said I'm not likely to pitch my #4 anytime soon, it's a good plane, super simple to use and has been very kind to me. As my ability with the kanna improves I may feel differently, but it;s how I feel currently.
The way that my efforts are going I will make the transition to Nagadai kanna and a planing beam for much of my work.
Push and pull, when combined with shooting boards, tend to rely upon other similar tools. A shooting board can be hooked to a bench and so its used with push planes and saws, but one which is held by a planing beam or stop on a bench can utilize pull planes and saws. So it's difficult to completely transition without completely transitioning.
I find myself not necessarily of the mind to eliminate my western planes, I enjoy them, but I do wish to eliminate most of my western backsaws. I find the dozuki and ryoba saws much more nimble than backsaws and so make the workflow move along quickly, I will typically use these with a shooting board....so you see where my dilemma is. Ahh well....all in due time.
Japanese saws, especially the better ones, are hollowed in the center, so are old western panel saws. My old Disston is wonderful to use but current day panel saws just do not live up, I found them very frustrating to use, while even inexpensive ryobas are very easy to use.
Giving up my heavy iron planes like the #7 jointer is really not much of a loss, it's a bear to use all day, while a wooden plane (western or eastern) is a dream to use.
That being said I'm not likely to pitch my #4 anytime soon, it's a good plane, super simple to use and has been very kind to me. As my ability with the kanna improves I may feel differently, but it;s how I feel currently.
- Vips
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
Although at an earlier stage, I believe I share your view on the mix of tools. I enjoy the ease of use with my western planes, but they don't appear to excel at much.
I prepare my stock, which is relatively small for boxes, using solely hand tools. The heft of the steel planes does get tiring, and I quickly begin to lose my balance with them, even after having used them for a few years now.
I did try a little experiment whilst I was shortening my bench height. Once I had shortened one end, the bench was effectively a planing beam, so I trialled the positioning with a home made kanna fitted with a verities iron. I'm really glad I did because I found the weight of the plane and the pulling action to be far less tiring and it seemed to offer me more control over each cut. I'm gathering materials for a planing beam now![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
As far as the saws are concerned, I dumped my LN saws once I had used the Gyokucho saws for a few months, and now I find it very difficult to use a western saw. I'm looking forward to building up more skill to try out a hand made ryoba some day.
I'm not entirely sure how material prep is approached with Kanna. WIll I be fine with simply a smoother to carry out all tasks, or do I look to add some cheaper kanna into the mix to help the rough prep?
I prepare my stock, which is relatively small for boxes, using solely hand tools. The heft of the steel planes does get tiring, and I quickly begin to lose my balance with them, even after having used them for a few years now.
I did try a little experiment whilst I was shortening my bench height. Once I had shortened one end, the bench was effectively a planing beam, so I trialled the positioning with a home made kanna fitted with a verities iron. I'm really glad I did because I found the weight of the plane and the pulling action to be far less tiring and it seemed to offer me more control over each cut. I'm gathering materials for a planing beam now
![Smile :)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
As far as the saws are concerned, I dumped my LN saws once I had used the Gyokucho saws for a few months, and now I find it very difficult to use a western saw. I'm looking forward to building up more skill to try out a hand made ryoba some day.
I'm not entirely sure how material prep is approached with Kanna. WIll I be fine with simply a smoother to carry out all tasks, or do I look to add some cheaper kanna into the mix to help the rough prep?
- Brian
- Deshi
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
I feel the same way about LN saws, mine are set to go soon enough. I plan to keep the crosscut saw for now but the dovetail saw and tenon saw are a poor match for Japanese saws. I almost never deviate from the line with a Japanese saw, the same cannot be said for my horrendous thin plate tenon saw.
With western planes you setup a roughing plane, truing plane and finish plane, I believe the same to be true for Kanna. Add to that you probably need a Ko-Ganna for small work.
With western planes you setup a roughing plane, truing plane and finish plane, I believe the same to be true for Kanna. Add to that you probably need a Ko-Ganna for small work.
- Vips
- Sweeper of Floors, Maker of Tea
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
So I've made a few purchases and some of them have arrived. I found some good deals with Tomohito-san over at Lida tools, who was a pleasure to deal with.
I purchased four planes and a hammer. A 65mm Tenshin by Fusaichi Yamaguchi using old Swedish steel, a 70mm Kukai by Tsunesaburo (special blue steel), a 70mm Hotetsune by Tsunesaburo (special blue steel), and a 70mm Maboroshi by Tsunesaburo, still to arrive, (special blue steel, maintenance free blade).
My figuring was to use the Swedish steel for finish planing softwoods, two of the blue steel planes for dimensioning, and one for finish planing hard woods. I will tune each and see how they behave with different wood types and then perhaps decide their best application?
The Tenshin arrived first and so after a week of acclimatising, admittedly perhaps not ideal, I have tuned it to be able to take cuts. The blade needed very little tapping out to flatten the back and keep a tidy Ura. Same for the chip breaker. I adjusted the dai and conditioned the sole. The plane was already well setup for two touch points and didn't need a lot of conditioning. Bedding angle is around 37 degrees and the blade is honed to 25. I did an awful job with one mimi, and so I'll have to wait for a more sharpenings before I get some of the blade width back. I still need to work out some minor chipping from the blade, but it took some decent shavings, so naturally I'm looking forward to fully honing the blade. I did however find a problem with the chip breaker seating. It appears to be very tight on one side and reach no where near the blade end. When I checked the pressure pin (Osae-bo?), I noticed it's not parallel to the blade and so I'm a little unsure how to remedy this. The plane works very nicely without a chip breaker, and once fully honed, it feels like it will tackle most softwood smoothing, so I may not need the chip breaker, but it would be nice to see what action the chip breaker plays.
As for the hammer, I still need to make a handle, so any advice on this would be great. The opening seems to be tapered so I'm assuming a wedged arrangement will work well?
Here are some pics.
![Image](http://s14.postimg.org/jzruz8kst/IMG_7146.jpg)
![Image](http://s30.postimg.org/5bio16dzx/IMG_7148.jpg)
![Image](http://s30.postimg.org/wku1fof31/IMG_7149.jpg)
![Image](http://s18.postimg.org/644o3d4px/IMG_7150.jpg)
![Image](http://s28.postimg.org/j5nggwtw9/IMG_7151.jpg)
![Image](http://s16.postimg.org/y782tkj9d/IMG_7152.jpg)
I purchased four planes and a hammer. A 65mm Tenshin by Fusaichi Yamaguchi using old Swedish steel, a 70mm Kukai by Tsunesaburo (special blue steel), a 70mm Hotetsune by Tsunesaburo (special blue steel), and a 70mm Maboroshi by Tsunesaburo, still to arrive, (special blue steel, maintenance free blade).
My figuring was to use the Swedish steel for finish planing softwoods, two of the blue steel planes for dimensioning, and one for finish planing hard woods. I will tune each and see how they behave with different wood types and then perhaps decide their best application?
The Tenshin arrived first and so after a week of acclimatising, admittedly perhaps not ideal, I have tuned it to be able to take cuts. The blade needed very little tapping out to flatten the back and keep a tidy Ura. Same for the chip breaker. I adjusted the dai and conditioned the sole. The plane was already well setup for two touch points and didn't need a lot of conditioning. Bedding angle is around 37 degrees and the blade is honed to 25. I did an awful job with one mimi, and so I'll have to wait for a more sharpenings before I get some of the blade width back. I still need to work out some minor chipping from the blade, but it took some decent shavings, so naturally I'm looking forward to fully honing the blade. I did however find a problem with the chip breaker seating. It appears to be very tight on one side and reach no where near the blade end. When I checked the pressure pin (Osae-bo?), I noticed it's not parallel to the blade and so I'm a little unsure how to remedy this. The plane works very nicely without a chip breaker, and once fully honed, it feels like it will tackle most softwood smoothing, so I may not need the chip breaker, but it would be nice to see what action the chip breaker plays.
As for the hammer, I still need to make a handle, so any advice on this would be great. The opening seems to be tapered so I'm assuming a wedged arrangement will work well?
Here are some pics.
![Image](http://s14.postimg.org/jzruz8kst/IMG_7146.jpg)
![Image](http://s30.postimg.org/5bio16dzx/IMG_7148.jpg)
![Image](http://s30.postimg.org/wku1fof31/IMG_7149.jpg)
![Image](http://s18.postimg.org/644o3d4px/IMG_7150.jpg)
![Image](http://s28.postimg.org/j5nggwtw9/IMG_7151.jpg)
![Image](http://s16.postimg.org/y782tkj9d/IMG_7152.jpg)
- Brian
- Deshi
Post
Re: Tool and tool source suggestions
nice haul!
Here is a handle I made today, from white ash, with the guidance of Stanley Covington. He also sold me the Kosaburo gennou.
![Image](http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/IMG_3205_zpsuygqtrat.jpg)
![Image](http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/IMG_3206_zpsclzqcvde.jpg)
You don't use a wedge. The hole should be tapered and also have a bulge inside of the gennou eye. The handle is made to just barely fit into the hole and the shape of the hole compresses the handle and locks it in.
Don't make a shoulder, the shoulder will cause the hammer to loosen.
I fixed a similar chipbreaker situation with my Yokohama Kunio plane. The chipper was a good bit of work. I set it up so that I could punch the center (inside) with a drift pin and buldge it out, then trimmed the ears back a bit.
I had to open the mouth up slightly more because I set the chipper very tightly to the end of the blade. Your mouth opening is impressive (what other context can you ever use that line?)
Here is a handle I made today, from white ash, with the guidance of Stanley Covington. He also sold me the Kosaburo gennou.
![Image](http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/IMG_3205_zpsuygqtrat.jpg)
![Image](http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/IMG_3206_zpsclzqcvde.jpg)
You don't use a wedge. The hole should be tapered and also have a bulge inside of the gennou eye. The handle is made to just barely fit into the hole and the shape of the hole compresses the handle and locks it in.
Don't make a shoulder, the shoulder will cause the hammer to loosen.
I fixed a similar chipbreaker situation with my Yokohama Kunio plane. The chipper was a good bit of work. I set it up so that I could punch the center (inside) with a drift pin and buldge it out, then trimmed the ears back a bit.
I had to open the mouth up slightly more because I set the chipper very tightly to the end of the blade. Your mouth opening is impressive (what other context can you ever use that line?)
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests