Tool and tool source suggestions

[Vips]

I've loitered around for a while, and I'm digesting as much info as I possibly can from this forum, and Chris' blog. I've been working for a few years with wood, and I feel some changes coming to my working methods. With this, I think it's time to do a little tool upgrading.

I have come across a few threads on tool choice and although they've helped me narrow down a few choices, I still have lots of questions. I'm hoping by stating what I make, and the techniques I use, it will help.

As some of you may have seen on the 'recent work' part of this forum, I enjoy making boxes. Recently, some of the Kumiko boxes I've completed have had me investigating different working methods, especially after considering the traditional approach to producing these. My usual way of working was hand tools, to which I recently added some power tools. A Festool router table, table saw, and a small planer. I moved from sawing and chisel work to cutting some parts of the lattice work using the table saw and router. It was also the first time I've used a machine to saw off the lid of a box. To cut a long story short, I've found I don't particularly gel with power tools. Although I achieved some fantastic accuracy using them, I didn't enjoy the setup time. The hulk in me would be released if I ever found I had to recalibrate a machine. On the contrary, I'm very calm and collected with hand tools, sometimes fettling for days to achieve what I'd like. After a series of leaks in my workshop, I moved into a semi-dry corner of it and setup a small Japanese planing workbench and sawhorses. Although I baulked at the idea of sitting on the floor and working, it's allowed me to produce some of the best work I've managed to date.

That is a little into my working practises that I'd like to further explore, but as you can imagine, western planes don't help the process when moving between a western and a Japanese workbench. Currently I own quite a mixed bag of tools. A couple of bevel up Veritas planes, a few Gyokucho saws, a few very cheap block planes, and chisels that you wouldn't even find in a bargain bin (£2 each). Most of these tools although cheap, have worked well when sharpened and fettled properly. On the sharpening front, I'm quite happy with my Sigma power ceramic set (13k), although one of my cats decided to jump on the 13k and it's now two stones.

As suggested by Brian, I'd like to get some tools a little more capable when tackling secret dovetail joints. I'm in the process of ordering a Veritas plough plane to deal with the various grooves, which in the past I've sawn and chiselled. I'd also like to try my hand at some Shoji for the house given my interest in Kumiko.

The tools which I'm unsure about are Japanese chisels which are suited to perhaps finer work, unless I can get a some which work well with the larger applications too. There are a few specialised chisels that I'd also like some feedback on, such as the sokozarai-nomi and mori-nomi. I only use a handful of sizes, so not really interested in a set. Unfortunately, I've not noticed a great deal of UK sources of quality Japanese tools. I've failed to ever get a reply from Stu at toolsfromJapan following several emails, and so that leaves me with fine-tools.com, classichandtools.com and perhaps the few Brian mentioned.

As far as a Kanna is concerned, I've looked at those on offer from toolsfromJapan, the few from fine-tools and those from Lida. As much as I'd like to place an order with Stu, beside not knowing exactly which chisels or kana, he's never replied. There appears to be only one manufacturer of chisels (Kawasei) at classichandtools https://www.classichandtools.com/acatal ... isels.html, a few more over at fine-tools with a few kanna options http://www.fine-tools.com/jhobm.html.

I'd also like a suggestion on a stone to bridge the gap between the 1k sigma and 6k, as that appears to take the longest. Also which Genno are nice for adjusting a plane?

I'm sure I've left out some much needed information, but as you can tell, coming from very inexpensive tools, I'm a little lost as to exactly what will benefit me the most. I do have a limited budget, but don't mind gradually investing if it is a better approach in the long run.

Thanks,

Vips

[Brian]

I use a wooden mallet to adjust my planes, just too painful to hit them with a steel hammer.

I think, quite honestly, that Japan-Tool needs to make the list, So is my first stop and he's been the best dealer to work with.

If So doesn't have it and I know what I want and Teshiba (mandaraya) has it on his website I'll buy it there. I just bought some saws that Teshiba had and Stu had as well, difference is timing. Teshiba gets things out fast, typically one day after the order is completed.

Stu has always done right by me, but his time to ship on in stock items can be 2 weeks in my experience and sometimes I want things faster (then sometimes customs throws a wrench in the works, but that's another story).

Anyways, if you don't know what you want you may want to try a few brands out before you commit to a whole set.

Personally I think that kikuhiromaru are pretty top notch. They deliver to me far more than I ask, such as allowing me to chop mortises with an oire nomi, which is poorly advised but the chisel did not flinch. I would not be confident that any other brand I've used would be able to handle that without spending about an hour at the sharpening stones after.

[Vips]

I've had a good look at the Japan-tool website. I'm really glad you've made a recommendation on a chisel manufacturer. I think I'll stat by ordering one or two of the size I use the most by that brand, and they also appear to sell Sigma stones. Import duty is usually another 20% on those prices, which is not something I'm looking forward to.

Are the Suminagashi (Damascus) style chisels overall better, or does the appearance take much precedence working ability of the tool?

I may order a Veritas dual marking gauge. Is there any reason I should buy a kama-Keshiki instead?

As far as the Kanna is concerned. Is a size between 60-70mm a plane that will work well for most tasks or is there any other reason to start with a smaller size? The Keizauburo over at fine-tools looks interesting, but I've not found any opinions on that blacksmith. Would this be suitable for a first Kanna given my budget won't extend too much more than this (~$350).

[Brian]

A smaller size is easier to setup initially and the dai won't move as much, given identical circumstances. If you need a full sized plane, maybe it's best to start with one, but I could have went with a 60mm for the work I do and not had any issue. It's counter-intuitive but when working furniture sized beams I generally go for a larger plane, and when working panels I prefer a slightly narrower plane depending on the wood (harder woods are easier with a narrower plane).

Damascus (mokume) offers no benefit, if you are budget concerned I would avoid it. When you get to the point where you want to start collecting hammers, chisels and knives that feature mokume then do so. There are plenty of advanced level buyers that won't even consider it because they only want serious appearing tools.

For quite some time I've wanted a mokume gennou, but it's always at the bottom of the list , well below stuff that offers a more practical benefit, such as speciality planes and saws.

I like kebiki gauges, they're just super intuitive to me and offer no fuss, I prefer them to western gauges.

[Chris Hall]

I've had a good look at the Japan-tool website. I'm really glad you've made a recommendation on a chisel manufacturer. I think I'll stat by ordering one or two of the size I use the most by that brand, and they also appear to sell Sigma stones. Import duty is usually another 20% on those prices, which is not something I'm looking forward to.

Are the Suminagashi (Damascus) style chisels overall better, or does the appearance take much precedence working ability of the tool?

Makes no difference whatsoever to performance, as the ink patterning is applied to layers in the jigane, not the cutting steel. Adding ink contributes nothing to cutting. It's decoration, and if you want to pay extra for that, go to town. Japanese tools can be incredibly pretty, and the range of aesthetic treatments available is quite vast. The swordsmith I helped out for a year in Japan hated tools with decoration. He said it was 'playing too much'. I tend to understand his point of view, preferring perfectly crafted well proportion and carefully finished basic tools without much emphasis upon decoration. Sometimes, decoration is used to conceal or drown out shortcomings in the basics, sad to say. The top modern smiths, like Funahiro and Kiyohisa, do not offer tools with ink patterning, or carved dragons, etc. It's more about the aesthetic of shubusa taking precedence - the beauty found in what is withheld or not expressed, and what can only be discerned by reflection and gradual appreciation, and I guess that is what resonates with me in the longer view. Not to say that wonders of Japanese metalwork, of the decorative variety (tsuba, warrior helmets, netsuke, etc.), do not take the breath away at times.

Bottom line: If the appearance of the tool inspires you in the work, whatever form that appearance might take, then all good as far as I am concerned.

As far as the Kanna is concerned. Is a size between 60-70mm a plane that will work well for most tasks or is there any other reason to start with a smaller size? The Keizaburo over at fine-tools looks interesting, but I've not found any opinions on that blacksmith. Would this be suitable for a first Kanna given my budget won't extend too much more than this (~$350).

A 65mm plane is often significantly less expensive than a 70mm, just as an 80mm plane is significantly more expensive than a 70mm, so that is something to consider. 70mm is a fairly standard size, however plane choice also relates to the type of things you make. A shōji maker may tend to have more planes in the 30-54mm size range for example. A timber frame carpenter will likely have at least three 70mm planes, and maybe a larger plane or two in the 80~100mm with. The very wide planes are really expensive.

The wider the plane, the larger the cleaned mark-free surface attainable, however the wider the plane, the more difficult it is to tune so as to achieve full width shavings and the harder it is to pull, especially in hard woods. If you have large hands, larger planes will tend feel right, while someone with smaller hands might struggle to use wider planes comfortably.

A Japanese plane under $500 might be called 'less expensive'. With less expensive planes, you can end definitely up with a fine cutting edge, but it is often the case that setting the tool up for use, flattening the blade, removing twist and cut, sharpening etc., is a lot more work with the cheaper tools than the better ones. The top end tools, more often than not, are easy to set up and require only a modest amount of adjustments. If you are new to Japanese planes, spending about $300~400 though is about right, as you are likely to make errors in setting it up and better to make mistakes on a mid-grade tool than a top of the line model. Making a mess of an $800 plane is not a pleasant experience - at least so I have heard

[Vips]

Thanks for taking the time for the suggestions and the explanations. I'll be talking to So about what he has in stock and what doesn't have horrible lead times.

I've also been considering some more specialty planes, such as the kiwa-kanna. When paring the mitre on a secret mitred dovetail joint, I've noticed in a few videos the use of kiwi-kanna and some more specialised towards cutting the mitre. I'm yet to find the exact name, but I believe it may be this one: http://www.hidatool.com/koetsu-finger-p ... plane-18mm. Should I be overly concerned about the manufacturer when it comes to these sort of planes taking the same approach as a hira-kanna, or will the one Hida stocks be fine? It does seem there may be a steeper learning curve with the japanese equivalents initially, but I like the idea of not breaking the workflow between push and pull too much if I can help it.

[djwong]

Thanks for pointing out Hida as a source of that plane. I am not exactly sure of the name of the plane, but searching for 留め鉋 (tome kanna) on google seems to find similar references. Here is a link to a blog that has a pictorial on making the secret mitre dovetail, using a kiwi kanna and a 45 degree shooting board.

[Vips]

That's a great link, thanks djwong. I searched for 留め鉋 and found many more blogs too. It's a concern when one would like to explore Japanese tools, yet doesn't understand the language! This is where Chris' blog and this forum has been invaluable. I would consider myself lost without them!

I'm in the process of producing the jigs to use chisels and regular planes to achieve the joint, but these tools appear to make it easier and perhaps more accurate.

[Steve]

Ebay can be a source for Japanese tools. I picked up a 65mm plane for less than 60 bucks with shipping from Japan. For this price I realize the tool is the very cheapest inferior quality handy-man no-name grade, but having said that - after some tuning and sharpening it is sweeter cutting than any old Stanley-Baily smoothing plane for the same price... plus, for this price I can feel free to tinker and experiment, before I move to a higher quality tool.

[Chris Hall]

Also try searching under tome ganna read: 止め鉋