Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
- Chris Hall
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- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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mi
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Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
Hello Chris. Sorry for the delay. Family life with 3 children I will comment in blue. Not sure if this is the best way, let me know if there is a better way.
- I can understand, given the slimness of the box, why you located the floor panel dadoes in plane with the lower carcase tenons, and why you chose to not extend the dado all the way along on the end boards (otherwise a chunk of the tenon would be removed). I don't follow however why you kept the long side carcase dadoes back - surely they could run right up to the tenon.
I see what you mean. My logic was to also avoid the mortice by keeping the dadoe back one inch. As i'm using a softwood i get a bit queasy about end-grain blow-out especially down in the corner with the mortice. I did wonder about eliminating the lowest mortice altogether and using only two spaced a bit further apart above the dadoe. I wonder what you think about that? I then left it thinking it will help carry the weight of the box better by having the low tenon there. Your thoughts here are appreciated for sure.
The box's design would not be impaired at all if you added 3/8" of height to it and lowered the floor pan so that its dado would clear the tenon.
I like that idea. However, as i mentioned earlier, i'm experimenting with my local store bought SPF which comes .75"x5.5".
I notice you have done the same stopped dadoes on the lid. Personally, I'm not exactly wildly enthusiastic about that detail - it wouldn't be hard to configure the dovetailed corners of the lid to allow a dado all the way in. If your floor panel shrinks appreciably, there will be gaps visible in the corners - are you sure you want that on the top of the box?
Yes, thank you for this suggestion. I will take a closer look and do this. I too would not like to have any gaps in the lid.
- the partition tenons are intended to keep the sides of the box from any tendency to bow outwards, and are located in the middle of the carcase sides. You have placed yours up high. Any special reason for that?
Simply an oversight. Thanks teacher. I will make the correction.
-since you are going with a overlapping top lid, do you have any concerns about being able to grab the box side handles? I guess I would worry that it might be easy to grab the box so that your grip is more on the lid than the box itself and that if your grip slipped a little the lid would remain in your hand while the box contents would get dumped out on the floor. This might be more likely to happen if someone else picked your tool box up to move it, someone unaware of how the lid and box were connected.
Yes, someone else needs to be considered here. I will think about this. Maybe i could make some sort of wooden key to "lock" the two together?
One final note - possibly a suggestion: I find it helpful to work in whole inches as opposed to feet and inches, especially on smaller projects. Having a measurement with two units present, feet and inches is going to lead to 'transposition of number errors' more often, I would suspect, than keeping to one unit. 1'-5", or 17" - which is less complicated? It's easy to reset SketchUp for this, and I personally like to use decimal inches all the time in Sketchup (and elsewhere in my work) as it is the most seamless when going from calculator to wood. Similarly, I avoid using fractions generally. I think that 3.3125" is easier to remember and less likely to be confused than the combined measure of 3-5/16". If a person were not familiar with feet-inches-fractions conventions, they might think that 3-5/16" is a subtraction problem.
Another good suggestion. Thank you. I will make the shift. Thanks again for your valuable time Chris.
- I can understand, given the slimness of the box, why you located the floor panel dadoes in plane with the lower carcase tenons, and why you chose to not extend the dado all the way along on the end boards (otherwise a chunk of the tenon would be removed). I don't follow however why you kept the long side carcase dadoes back - surely they could run right up to the tenon.
I see what you mean. My logic was to also avoid the mortice by keeping the dadoe back one inch. As i'm using a softwood i get a bit queasy about end-grain blow-out especially down in the corner with the mortice. I did wonder about eliminating the lowest mortice altogether and using only two spaced a bit further apart above the dadoe. I wonder what you think about that? I then left it thinking it will help carry the weight of the box better by having the low tenon there. Your thoughts here are appreciated for sure.
The box's design would not be impaired at all if you added 3/8" of height to it and lowered the floor pan so that its dado would clear the tenon.
I like that idea. However, as i mentioned earlier, i'm experimenting with my local store bought SPF which comes .75"x5.5".
I notice you have done the same stopped dadoes on the lid. Personally, I'm not exactly wildly enthusiastic about that detail - it wouldn't be hard to configure the dovetailed corners of the lid to allow a dado all the way in. If your floor panel shrinks appreciably, there will be gaps visible in the corners - are you sure you want that on the top of the box?
Yes, thank you for this suggestion. I will take a closer look and do this. I too would not like to have any gaps in the lid.
- the partition tenons are intended to keep the sides of the box from any tendency to bow outwards, and are located in the middle of the carcase sides. You have placed yours up high. Any special reason for that?
Simply an oversight. Thanks teacher. I will make the correction.
-since you are going with a overlapping top lid, do you have any concerns about being able to grab the box side handles? I guess I would worry that it might be easy to grab the box so that your grip is more on the lid than the box itself and that if your grip slipped a little the lid would remain in your hand while the box contents would get dumped out on the floor. This might be more likely to happen if someone else picked your tool box up to move it, someone unaware of how the lid and box were connected.
Yes, someone else needs to be considered here. I will think about this. Maybe i could make some sort of wooden key to "lock" the two together?
One final note - possibly a suggestion: I find it helpful to work in whole inches as opposed to feet and inches, especially on smaller projects. Having a measurement with two units present, feet and inches is going to lead to 'transposition of number errors' more often, I would suspect, than keeping to one unit. 1'-5", or 17" - which is less complicated? It's easy to reset SketchUp for this, and I personally like to use decimal inches all the time in Sketchup (and elsewhere in my work) as it is the most seamless when going from calculator to wood. Similarly, I avoid using fractions generally. I think that 3.3125" is easier to remember and less likely to be confused than the combined measure of 3-5/16". If a person were not familiar with feet-inches-fractions conventions, they might think that 3-5/16" is a subtraction problem.
Another good suggestion. Thank you. I will make the shift. Thanks again for your valuable time Chris.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
Post
Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
Looking forward to seeing how your design evolves Michael.
The mention of the locking mechanism for the lid is prescient as I've been looking into various options for some sort of locking mechanism/catch for the sliding lid design. There are a few possibilities at this point and I'll post up when I've had a chance to puzzle it out a bit more. The lid holds in place just fine with friction but a means of securing the contents for travel is worth a bit of investigation. If anyone has any ideas, please share them.
Remember, you could always edge glue two boards together to obtain a taller carcase piece if so desired. I know you are going for 'slimline' tho......i'm experimenting with my local store bought SPF which comes .75"x5.5
The mention of the locking mechanism for the lid is prescient as I've been looking into various options for some sort of locking mechanism/catch for the sliding lid design. There are a few possibilities at this point and I'll post up when I've had a chance to puzzle it out a bit more. The lid holds in place just fine with friction but a means of securing the contents for travel is worth a bit of investigation. If anyone has any ideas, please share them.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
Post
Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
Another point: if things are crowded down at the area of the carcase and floor intersection, you could rebate the floor panel so that it required a narrower groove.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
I've been mulling over the storage question a little further, and at this point I'm leaning strongly towards adding more trays to the inside lower area of the box. This adds more work of course, but it takes the paring chisels out of the leather storage roll and places them instead on a pair of stacked trays. There's room for a third tray as well, which I could use for storing 3 or 4 hammers. Here are the preliminary sketches of the lower trays:
Again, the trays are not a 'formal' part of the toolbox project and each maker can decide on their own what goes in the box and how it will be configured for their tools. Me? I keep adding more trays, which will make this toolbox a composition of many boxes. It will be fun to do different corner joints on each tray...
Again, the trays are not a 'formal' part of the toolbox project and each maker can decide on their own what goes in the box and how it will be configured for their tools. Me? I keep adding more trays, which will make this toolbox a composition of many boxes. It will be fun to do different corner joints on each tray...
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
I did some mock ups with the chisels and hammers to see how to best configure things in the set of lower trays. for the bottom tray, which is non-removable, I can fit three hammers:
I have about 7" of width available:
The top two trays, which are removable, will each hold half the set of my paring chisels:
The only inconvenience to this design is that when i want a hammer from the bottom tray, I need to remove all the trays.
I also needed to come up with a way to keep the trays indexed to one another so they couldn't slide about. In the end I chose a similar solution as I had for the upper trays, using a flange on each level:
Separated:
Here's a view with the side and top removed so you can see all the interior trays nestled into place - note how the lower set of trays abuts the floor panel of the upper tray assembly:
This added set of bottom trays meant a bit of added work on the main floor panel, and a slight change in the locking pin arrangement between the main partitions and the floor panel. I will detail these changes in the 'getting rolling..." thread.
I'm thinking at this point that I will store the tools in each tray using foam. This will provide the best protection to the tools in several respects, and if the tool set changes at some future point, it is far easier to tear some foam out and put in new than it would be to try and work around wooden partitions fitted to the trays. Fitting the foam should also be a fair bit quicker to accomplish than interior partitioning, baffles, support blocks, etc.
I have about 7" of width available:
The top two trays, which are removable, will each hold half the set of my paring chisels:
The only inconvenience to this design is that when i want a hammer from the bottom tray, I need to remove all the trays.
I also needed to come up with a way to keep the trays indexed to one another so they couldn't slide about. In the end I chose a similar solution as I had for the upper trays, using a flange on each level:
Separated:
Here's a view with the side and top removed so you can see all the interior trays nestled into place - note how the lower set of trays abuts the floor panel of the upper tray assembly:
This added set of bottom trays meant a bit of added work on the main floor panel, and a slight change in the locking pin arrangement between the main partitions and the floor panel. I will detail these changes in the 'getting rolling..." thread.
I'm thinking at this point that I will store the tools in each tray using foam. This will provide the best protection to the tools in several respects, and if the tool set changes at some future point, it is far easier to tear some foam out and put in new than it would be to try and work around wooden partitions fitted to the trays. Fitting the foam should also be a fair bit quicker to accomplish than interior partitioning, baffles, support blocks, etc.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
I received the foam in the past couple of days and finally got the time today to do some slicing and dicing.
I used a tablesaw to slice the foam up into tray-sized pieces, feeding carefully to ensure I didn't overload the machine or dull the blade too quick
First tray was the bottom one, which in my box holds a few hammers:
The special marking pen that came with the foam...
...proved to be a dud so I simply traced around the tools with an X-Acto knife.
Then it is a matter of deepening the cuts where required and peeling the foam out layer by layer:
The result:
The fit of the first tool:
A short while later I had the other two hammers fitted:
Then it was on to the lower lift out tray, which will hold my larger paring chisels. Slicing n' dicing complete, here's the result;
Finally on to the upper lift out tray, which holds some of the slimmer paring chisels in my set. I completed the same process on that tray in less than half an hour:
Another view:
The foam came in a 2' x 4' piece, so I have plenty left over for the larger upper lift out tray assembly, which I still have to fabricate. This foam seems like a great solution, providing secure and protective tool storage that will not engender rusting, unlike most wooden racks.
I used a tablesaw to slice the foam up into tray-sized pieces, feeding carefully to ensure I didn't overload the machine or dull the blade too quick
First tray was the bottom one, which in my box holds a few hammers:
The special marking pen that came with the foam...
...proved to be a dud so I simply traced around the tools with an X-Acto knife.
Then it is a matter of deepening the cuts where required and peeling the foam out layer by layer:
The result:
The fit of the first tool:
A short while later I had the other two hammers fitted:
Then it was on to the lower lift out tray, which will hold my larger paring chisels. Slicing n' dicing complete, here's the result;
Finally on to the upper lift out tray, which holds some of the slimmer paring chisels in my set. I completed the same process on that tray in less than half an hour:
Another view:
The foam came in a 2' x 4' piece, so I have plenty left over for the larger upper lift out tray assembly, which I still have to fabricate. This foam seems like a great solution, providing secure and protective tool storage that will not engender rusting, unlike most wooden racks.
Post
Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
Chris,
That's very nice and neat. I went to the site where you ordered that foam from and viewed their videos of all that they were using it for to organize their equipment. Are you going to burn in finger clearance like they showed?
Jack
That's very nice and neat. I went to the site where you ordered that foam from and viewed their videos of all that they were using it for to organize their equipment. Are you going to burn in finger clearance like they showed?
Jack
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to bother with the finger clearance thing as it seems pretty easy to push the foam out of the way and grab the tool. Well, hmm, we'll see. Maybe I will, just not entirely sure it's necessary. It's an easy modification to make at any time, so I'll try using it a while and decide based on that.
~Chris
~Chris
- IvanS
- Lurker
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- Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Re: Preliminaries - what goes in the box?
This is my first post on the study group and I thought it be best to start from the beginning project. All I had in my small collection of wood was some very nice redwood boards that I have been saving for some time now. They are 7/8" thick which is great but I am limited to no wider than 6 1/4". That's ok because I don't need it to be a tall box. The redwood will be a challenge to keep from tearing out on the mortises but it will be nice and light to carry around.
Here are a few of the tools I plan on putting in the box.
Here are a few of the tools I plan on putting in the box.
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