Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Jack_Ervin.
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Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:44 am

Yxoc wrote:Jack - Thankyou, that was a comprehensive explanation and well illustrated. I had imagined them being done by knifing the lines and then working to depth with the router plane but wasting out with the chisel first is much more efficient.

regards

Derek
Without a hand router this could be accomplished just using a chisel. What I have shown up to implementing the hand router is the way I would proceed. Then I would continue to depth with the chisel bevel down and jigging the chisel on the bevel. Checking depth progress and practice will produce a sufficient dodo.

The cross grain dodoes I will handel slightly different since the first run across will not break the wood fibers properly. My initial plan is to knife the outline and with a chisel cut carefully to the knife line, then continue carrying the knife line down with a paring chisel. I will work down with the hand router when I have sufficient depth established but these will be shallower so they should go quicker.

Jack
Jack_Ervin.
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Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:45 am

Chris & All,
Chris Hall wrote: The dado on these end boards can be run right through, but I prefer to just go past the line and keep as much of the router on the wood as I can.
I went back to the start of this thread and re read the first installment. When I planed out how the dados were to be cut I scanned over how you cut them and missed your reasoning on stopping the end board dados. I would have run those through but those were the first ones I cut so it was a good confidence builder and good practice for this project.


Regards,

Jack
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Chris Hall
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Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:09 am

Yes, that is a good example of how the choice of tool might affect the cutting sequence and method. And for that matter, if I had decided to set up a piece of material to the side of the board I could have run the router right through. In truth, if my router table had been available, I probably would have done the cut out on the table instead of with a portable router.

Only yesterday did I get my new table set up, and I'm looking forward to putting it to use really soon.
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Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:04 pm

With the changes made to the floor pan of the tool box in order to accommodate some new trays, I need to add some shallow dadoes to the floor panel. These are 0.0625" deep and 0.375" wide. You'll have to look closely at the photo to see them, but they're there!:
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I also prepared the stock which will be fitted into these new dadoes, and I chose Pau Amarella for that. See the 'What goes in the Box' thread for illustration of the center trays and support pieces.

With my new router table up and running, I trimmed a 1/8" nib off the top edge end portions of the end boards:
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Then I trimmed the height of the long side boards down 1/8" on a tablesaw (not shown).

I finished off the work on the handles to define their tongues, both on the back side and top edge:
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The fit between the handles rear tongue and the end board's dado is a light interference fit - for the time being I'll hold off on putting them together, but this photo gives a good idea of how the parts will associate:
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This picture above shows clearly how the tongue on the top edge of the handle attaches alongside the top edge of the end board, and purpose of removing the nib from the end board top edge ends should now be clear. The handle's top edge tongue and the top edge of the end board when put together form a large tongue which will fit into a recess on the cap piece.

The main partitions will attach to the floor panel using some wedged floating keys, and I took care of the two mortises for this:
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I had made the interior partitions, however I was a bit less than enthused about the mahogany which I had selected for them. Good mahogany is dark, dense, and has white flecks in the pores - the bad stuff is pale and light. These partitions were of that latter type, and as I worked them and looked at them day after day I grew less excited about using them. I think the partitions will take a fair amount of wear and tear from taking the tray out and putting it back repeatedly, and I felt a harder wood was called for.

I decided to ditch the light mahogany partitions and go with some material a little lighter in color and denser. I would have preferred Pau Amarello, however I had no adequately wide pieces left. I found some quartersawn pieces of Canary Wood on the shelf however and decided they would do just fine. So, time to make the interior partitions, round two. With the added trays in the middle of the box, I changed the cut-out sequence slightly, this time beginning with the housed mortises for the bottom tray support pieces.

Laid out and both boards clamped together in preparation for routing:
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A bit of routing later:
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Then I went over to the hollow chisel mortiser to deal with the holes:
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Done - one board is facing out, one facing in:
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A closer look:
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These mortises are not flared and the tenons going into them will not be wedged - there's no need for that form of joint as the partitions are constrained from moving by the floor panel dadoes and by the tenoned connections holding the partitions to the long side walls of the box.

The mortises could use a little paring yet, but I'll save that for the fitting stage:
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Then I processed the tenons on each end, and with that complete, I could saw kerfs into the tenons:
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One done, three to go:
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So, the floor pan is done, and the partitions are done. I have the lengthwise tray support stock pieces prepared, but haven't begun cutting them out yet. Here's how the parts relate to one another in case you're feeling a little lost:
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I'll start a separate thread for the tray builds, as that aspect is somewhat outside the project scope. Maybe you'll build trays like me, and maybe you will decide on something different altogether.
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Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:54 pm

Continuing on with the work on the partition and tray support pieces.

The new Canary wood partitions needed a finish planing:
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Lots of pretty shavings off of this wood!:
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The tray support pieces were also planed, and I then cleaned out the partition mortises and decided to do a fitting:
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Seemed to come out okay:
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With the partition and support piece assembly together, I could check how it fit onto the floor panel:
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That all went fine:
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The two tray support pieces in Pau Amarello are a slightly loose fit in the respective floor panel grooves to allow for a slight amount of seasonal movement. We are just coming out of the dry time of year so I am anticipating some swelling in the floor panel as we move into summer, though it should be fairly modest given the VG grain orientation in the panel.

I only need to check the fit of the partitions into the toolbox long sides and the guts of the toolbox are basically complete. There are still two mortises to do in the partitions. I'll show that work in the next posting.
ti
timoore

Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:39 am

Chris Hall wrote:
I finished off the work on the handles to define their tongues, both on the back side and top edge:
I've been wondering about this step, especially for us hand tool Luddites. I can see that this would be easy on a routing table; how would you go about it using only hand tools? Mostly sawing to establish the sides of the tongues and the new tops of the handle?
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Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:59 am

Tim,

actually, there are some tricks to doing it on the router table to obtain an accurate result and it would be easy otherwise to make a mess of it in a hurry. The obvious ways to do it are not always the best way. I think that's why a lot of people shy away from routers - they have had something go wrong in a hurry while using one.

By hand, you would be rip sawing to define the tongue (or chopping and paring with a chisel), then using a corner plane, filister rebating plane, or shoulder plane to dress the surrounding surfaces to the line. Possibly a router plane could be employed if a pair of supports were made up around the handle.

And Luddites, I might add, were not anti-technology or anti-machine. They were against the type of machines which dumbed-down their trade and put them out of work. They were against the factory system, people locked inside a building for 16 hour shifts doing mindless tasks. In their own homes, where they did their work, they often had the more sophisticated types of looms. It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine the persistent association of Luddites to some sort of backward anti-tech group, as this has been the message spun by the victors - the factory owners - in that battle. Anyone who work with tools and aspires to be a craftsperson ought to have a clearer understanding of the Luddite movement and what it was really about, not the propaganda spun since to discredit it.
ti
timoore

Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:49 am

Chris Hall wrote: By hand, you would be rip sawing to define the tongue (or chopping and paring with a chisel), then using a corner plane, filister rebating plane, or shoulder plane to dress the surrounding surfaces to the line. Possibly a router plane could be employed if a pair of supports were made up around the handle.
Ok. What would a Japanese carpenter using hand tools do?
Chris Hall wrote: And Luddites, I might add, were not anti-technology or anti-machine. They were against the type of machines which dumbed-down their trade and put them out of work. They were against the factory system, people locked inside a building for 16 hour shifts doing mindless tasks. In their own homes, where they did their work, they often had the more sophisticated types of looms. It's a bit of a pet peeve of mine the persistent association of Luddites to some sort of backward anti-tech group, as this has been the message spun by the victors - the factory owners - in that battle. Anyone who work with tools and aspires to be a craftsperson ought to have a clearer understanding of the Luddite movement and what it was really about, not the propaganda spun since to discredit it.
Not to wander too far off topic, but I do know the true sense of "Luddite." I was using it with a bit of irony. Irony sometimes serves only to amuse the user :)
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Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:57 am

A Japanese carpenter would likely glue or nail them together :)

Well, a Japanese carpenter would do much the same, as corner planes and shoulder planes are in the Japanese tool set. First, use a marking gauge all the way around to mark the baseline. Then mark the tongue. Then it is a matter of removing waste. If you have a tablesaw, that would be helpful, if not, sawing for teens, anniversary special edition. With the material hogged off, then it is a matter of paring and planing the surface down to the line.

I tend to be a little bit touchy about references to 'Luddites', having read quite a bit about them, being sympathetic to what they stood for, and seeing the term bandied about so carelessly/unknowingly all the time. Glad you know about them.
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Re: Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:53 pm

Managed to get my floor panel planed today:
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I used to have problems with tear out on Pau Amarello sometimes, but not with this plane:
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i find it planes up nice and shiny. Too bad most of it will be covered with tools and stuff!

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