Getting rolling - dadoes, mortises and tenons

[Chris Hall]

Ah, yes, I see. The 1/8" (3mm) difference is important - the end boards are that much taller than the side boards. The end boards will eventually have a portion which form part of a tongue (the other portion being on the top face of the handle). For now, we lay out and cut all the joinery with the side boards being 1/8" taller than they are to finish. Once the joinery is complete, we trim 1/8" off the side boards, along with a small portion at each end of the end boards, which will leave that 1/8" portion of the end boards proud.

Here's a drawing for any additional clarification which it may provide:

道具箱 staggered heights.jpg (72.07 KiB) Viewed 3654 times

[Koot]

..... The 1/8" (3mm) difference ........ Once the joinery is complete, we trim 1/8" off the side boards ...

Thanks Chris, that's what I was asking about.

Marv

[Chris Hall]

For no special reason, today I decided to process the tenons on the end of the handles. I could just as easily have worked on the end board tenons, but, what the heck?

The handles were already cut to dimension (identical to the end boards), so I used the kama kebiki, which I had left at the same setting as it had been when marking out the end board tenons, to mark a line out around the ends of the handle:

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If you hadn't cut the handle and end boards to length simultaneously, or had not kept the kama kebiki set, then you can compare your knifed marks for width on the handle with the ones on the end boards:

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Then I used combo square and 0.5mm pencil to mark out the tenons, which are 0.375" x 1.0" (@ 9.5mm x 25mm) along with the top and inside face tongues:

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The board in the above picture is oriented so that its bottom face is uppermost.

Another check to make sure that the inside face tongue laid out corresponds to the groove already cut on the outside face of the end board:

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The tongue is slightly shorter, which is fine. The critical fit aspect to the tongue and groove is the tongue's width, and making sure the groove is a hair deeper than the tongue.

One way to process the cuts on the tenon is with a handsaw - I start by cutting the shoulders first, broad face first:

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Then the bottom edge:

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The next face:

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And final face:

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Then the ripping can begin:

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Now, the ripping is more often done so that you would remove the waste from the long sides first, then pare the exposed end grain square to the face, and then use a corner cutting-plane to trim the side of the tenon cheek square and to the required depth. I feel fairly confident with my hand rip cuts, so I just went and removed all the waste to leave the roughed out tenon. Then I pared the exposed end grain clean:

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A little more trimming and the tenon is defined, with a little clean up of the tenon cheeks still required:

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Now, with smaller piece of wood like this I usually do not saw and pare my way there - I use the router in a jig where I can cut directly onto the end grain to form the tenon, a configuration in which the router excels:

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The cut out proceeds in stages, and when the tenons are done, I check the handle's end against the end board to make sure they are exactly the same dimension. Here's one side:

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And here's the other:

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Tenons complete, sawn one on the right, routed one on the left, plus a few more cutting steps along the way:

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Another view:

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I have yet to process the cuts to define the tongue on the inside face and top face of the handle. Then there will be the template-profiling work. I'll leave that until next time.

Here's where my pile of boards is, stage-wise:

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[Jack_Ervin.]

Chris and All,

I am working on material for the Roof Model 1 and have the stock 4 squared and sized. I am up to cutting the pieces to length. I have just traded for a couple of Ryoba Noko Giri saws (220 & 270) and am picking the Internet today on the proper technic. This post fell just timely for what I need to learn, pull sawing technic. I have owned a 220 of lesser quality for a number of years and have used it some but not enough to learn the proper usage. Pointers will be graciously accepted.

I am closely studying your technics on layout and mortising and am gaining a lot from the posts especially the last couple of days.

My woodworking buddy has a mortising fixture like you have shown and he has been tempting me to use it the last few years. I may take him up on it for some of these tenons.

By the way I did see

DSC04854-small.JPG

Chang. That was quiet a magic illusion.

Regards,

Jack

[Chris Hall]

That sort of mortising jig is easy to make from MDF - I've built lots of them. The one in the photo is a Leigh FMT, which I use in an unorthodox manner since it is infrequent that i cut a standard-size, centered tenon. I'm thinking of building a larger one from aircraft aluminum.

Did you get replaceable blade saws, or re-sharpenable saws?

And please translate:

Chang. That was quiet a magic illusion.

I'm not sure I get your meaning...

[Jack_Ervin.]

That sort of mortising jig is easy to make from MDF - I've built lots of them. The one in the photo is a Leigh FMT, which I use in an unorthodox manner since it is infrequent that i cut a standard-size, centered tenon. I'm thinking of building a larger one from aircraft aluminum.

Did you get replaceable blade saws, or re-sharpenable saws?

The Leigh FMT is the one that he has.

The saws that I got are the re-sharpenable saws. I have photos which I will post but they will have to be re-sized and done on my laptop.

[Jack_Ervin.]

Did you get replaceable blade saws, or re-sharpenable saws?

And please translate:

Chang. That was quiet a magic illusion.

I'm not sure I get your meaning...

Here are photos of the saws. I think they came from Hida several years ago.

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Photo of kanji:

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As for as:

Chang. That was quiet a magic illusion.

That should have read

By the way I did see the attachment (DSC4854-small.JPG) change. That was quiet a magic illusion.

I was viewing the post above on dadoes and tenons just after it went online and the attachment "DSC4854-small.JPG"changed from one of the earlier photos to what it is now after I viewed it again. That's what my comment was about. I did not preview before I submitted and did not sort this out until this morning. My bad.

The fine work that you are doing with the way you are presenting this material is a revelation of methods to work. I will be getting a .5 pencil with a sliding sleeve for layout, since the 2mm leadholder that I am using is a hassle to keep sharpened.

I made another practice cut in the pine 4x4 using a guide block and I think that will be a start to building confidence starting cuts using the pull saw. I need lots of practice but I will get there. I am guessing that the weight of the saw is what is needed but stroke speed is what I don't know about. How does about 60 strokes a minute sound?

You stated that you are using Camellia Oil for paring. Would Jojoba Oil also work?

[Chris Hall]

Jack,

the main thing with the saw stroke is that is be smooth and straight. Like riding a bicycle, going very slowly is more difficult, but going very fast right away is also ill-advised. First concentrate on smoothness and accuracy, then build speed.

Three points:

1) keep your forearm aligned with the handle, your elbow drawing back in a straight line. The action is similar to the mechanics involved in striking a pool ball well with a cue. Don't grip the saw over tightly, and your grip should be tighter at the pinky finger end than the first finger end.

2) grip the saw, in single-hand work, close to the end of the handle:

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By holding it further away you minimize your tendency to muscle the cut. Choking up on the grip 'for control' tends to encourage poor cutting mechanics.

3) avoid short saw strokes, try to make long strokes which use all the saw teeth in the cut.

----

A good way to practice:

Round 1) Lay out a series of cut lines with a try square or combo square on a square stick. Space the lines 1/4" apart, and make 50 lines, a total of 12.5". Starting at the end, make your 50 cuts.

Round 2) Same as above, but space your cuts 1/8" apart. Saw 50 cuts.

Round 3) Same as above, but space your cuts 1/16" apart. This is much tougher- and errant or jerky saw pulls will tend to break the piece you are slicing off. If that happens, make a cut about 1/4" further end to get a clan end grain face, and start again. When you can make 50 parallel cuts 1/16" apart you will have obtained excellent control of the saw. A good challenge is to see how thin a slice you can take with the saw - which is also a good benchmark to teeth sharpness and striaghtness.

You don't have to do the three rounds on the same day. Another way to gauge cutting finesses is to stack, in the case of the 1/4" slices, the pieces into a tower, arranged at random positions (i.e., not stacked identically as they came off the stick). The tower should be standing straight.

[Jack_Ervin.]

Three points:

1) keep your forearm aligned with the handle, your elbow drawing back in a straight line. The action is similar to the mechanics involved in striking a pool ball well with a cue. Don't grip the saw over tightly, and your grip should be tighter at the pinky finger end than the first finger end.

2) grip the saw, in single-hand work, close to the end of the handle:

By holding it further away you minimize your tendency to muscle the cut. Choking up on the grip 'for control' tends to encourage poor cutting mechanics.

3) avoid short saw strokes, try to make long strokes which use all the saw teeth in the cut.

I took these instructions out to the shop and put them to practice. I made 20 cuts to 1/4" spaced layout lines in 1-1/2"x1-1/2" pine. Then one cut to 1/8" and one cut to 1/16" layout lines in 1-1/2"x3" pine without breaking out. Just this session has given me confidence to put these to practice. Now I just need to put in the 50 cut practices regularly in the future to build up further accuracy, muscle memory and stamina.

Thanks,

Jack

[dom]

I'm in the same boat as Tim and Charles, hoping to do most of the work with hand tools, I dont own any machinery.
D