Hand techniques

[Brian]

Kikuhiromaru white steel #1 Shinden Suita



It would not surprise me to find out that this blade is really hard, the hagane is turning out an only slightly hazy finish on the shinden. It's very near a shiny finish, definitely brighter than the blue steel #2 or white steel #2 from Koyamaichi.

I'm definitely curious to see how the edges compare in use.

[Chris Pyle]

I'm interested in your thoughts on the Kikuhiromaru as you continue using it. I have a few on order from So that I plan on not touching until I've gone through the paces with my lower priced and presumably, lower quality chisels.

[Brian]

Will do. Did you get blue steel or white steel?

I like my Koyamaichis, especially the blue steel paring chisels, but I just cant help but dabble. And so far I really like the ouchi carving chisels, but I dont have alot of time on them.

My only complaint with WS #2 Koyamaichis was that I had to increase the bevel angle more than I feel I should have. I was expecting to be able to maintain 30 degrees (give or take) where I'm probably 32-34 degrees. However, these are striking chisels and mortise chisels and I use them in maple, oak, ash, ect. They can get a little chippy on the edge if I really put them through the paces. The blue steel ones have been brilliant, no complaints on them.

[djwong]

My only complaint with WS #2 Koyamaichis was that I had to increase the bevel angle more than I feel I should have. I was expecting to be able to maintain 30 degrees (give or take) where I'm probably 32-34 degrees. However, these are striking chisels and mortise chisels and I use them in maple, oak, ash, ect. They can get a little chippy on the edge if I really put them through the paces. The blue steel ones have been brilliant, no complaints on them.

Brian,
I have the same complaint with some WS #2 Ouichi bench chisels (from the 80's) that I have. I raised the bevel to 30 degrees, but still am getting micro chips in fairly normal use. I am hoping that after I sharpen through more steel, that the edge will be tougher.
-David

[Chris Pyle]

Will do. Did you get blue steel or white steel?

I like my Koyamaichis, especially the blue steel paring chisels, but I just cant help but dabble. And so far I really like the ouchi carving chisels, but I dont have alot of time on them.

My only complaint with WS #2 Koyamaichis was that I had to increase the bevel angle more than I feel I should have. I was expecting to be able to maintain 30 degrees (give or take) where I'm probably 32-34 degrees. However, these are striking chisels and mortise chisels and I use them in maple, oak, ash, ect. They can get a little chippy on the edge if I really put them through the paces. The blue steel ones have been brilliant, no complaints on them.

I ordered a few WS#1 Kiku paring chisels, some Konobu Assab K120 paring chisels and a few tataki nomi for the workshop later this year.

[Brian]

Working on some Konobu gouges myself. Not sure the lead time but I expect a pretty good wait.

I did some paring with these, they really take a keen edge, so I would imagine you will be quite happy with the dedicated paring chisels.

[siavoshb]

Hi Brian, I'm in the market for my first Japanese paring chisel, and I'm curious why you chose the Blue steel over the White steel Koyamaichis? I was thinking since white steel takes a keener edge and edge-retention isn't as a big a concern on softer cuts, white steel would be preferable. Thanks.

[Brian]

My understanding is that there is much more to it than just white steel/blue steel, 1/2, ect. Smith's have preference and ability, and so you have a situation like Tasai where he mostly uses yasuki steel. I knew that Koyamaichi gave special attention to both blue steel orders and thin paring chisels, so that also motivated me to chose blue steel.

Added wear resistance was certainly not a negative for paring chisels that spend all day on the bench.

Here is a chart that I found that gives a very clear outline of the common steels;

https://www.hidatool.com/image/data/pdf ... 0Chart.pdf

Given the same choice again I would probably order some white steel parers but it would be from a smith that specialises in white steel #1.

One more thought; As far as ultra keen edges go, I think that there is more for me left to discover in the stones and strops long before I get super picky with steels and makers when we're talking about generally great choices in both.

[Brian]

Update on this;

Left to Right would be Koyamaichi white steel 2, Koyamaichi Blue Steel 2, Kikuhiromaru White steel #1 (and again) and finally Tasai steel.



My conclusion so far is that the Kiku's and Tasai must have a very hard edge, they're coming up almost like a mirror on the hagane.

Shinden Yama Renge suita stone.

Another interesting thing, hard to see in the photos....these old stock Kiku's show layers in the jigane, not sure why, but I thought it was interesting.

[Brian]

Just wanted to post an update on this, I think I've made my first truly flat bevel (lol), after re-reading Chris' 'Kanna help you, perhaps?' and with So's help;

The trouble I've been having is that what looks flat on the 3k stone is actually not flat on the finish stone, but the Shinden does not cut very quickly and so the result is that I'm making the 'clamshell'. It's my understand that the clamshell is actually very strong, so it's great for something really put through the paces but it's not going to be as sharp as a flat bevel. What I did to correct this was add a 4th stone, an 8k snow white, which I had previously been using as a finish stone. I used this in between the 3k cho and the Shinden and what I found was that the snow white would tell me if the bevel was flat off the 3k....which is was not...but also cuts quickly enough that I still correct the bevel to flatten it.

What may very well be the case is that I'm not flattening the 3k cho enough and so I will flatten that more than I currently do, but it has the ability to hide errors where the mirror finish produced by the snow white does not.

When I finish with the shinden after this I am noticing consistency and the reflection does not show distortion. I'm also noticing my results are much improved for sharpness.

Couple notes about that...my chisels are capable of peeling shavings off of pine end grain and keeping the shavings intact...and yet this is still a noticeable improvement.