Hand techniques

[Chris Hall]

Other people will say they don't care much for it, but I quite like using a DMT Dia-Flat for keeping my waterstones flat. I also have an Atoma 1200, but nearly always use the Dia-Flat to flatten stones. That's all I use it for in fact. I especially like the generous size, weight, and it doesn't delaminate like past DMT products, plus it is exceptionally flat.

The sandpaper route is something you could explore for flattening stones, however I guarantee that you will abandon it after a while. It does produce good results in terms of flattening stones, but it is messy and wasteful, plus not particularly field-usable when a 100 lb. surface plate is involved.

[Brian]

Same as Chris, I use a diaflat and it works fine for me. I dont flatten straight on because it sticks very quickly, but instead use a lapping pattern.

[Chris Hall]

Not having the pronunciations down? Jesus, does he ever mangle the Japanese language! I had to stop watching after 5 minutes- my ears were hurting.

[Brian]

Power through, the information is very good.

Just FYI, I'm probably just as horrendous as the only place for me to ask pronunciations is my local sushi restaurant (the real kind). I've asked them to correct me as often as possible when I butcher something. I don't think that disqualifies me from studying, practicing and providing information about my results, just the same as I don't think that disqualifies David's information.

[Chris Hall]

I think I'll pass. I could already tell from some of the stuff he was saying that his understanding of Japanese natural stones was not especially sophisticated.

If you watched a Japanese guy talking about western tools and he mangled the pronunciation of every English word, I think you'd find it off-putting as well, if not somewhat hilarious.

It doesn't take a lot of time to get a decent grasp of how the Japanese alphabet works and how vowels are pronounced. We're talking an afternoon of study. If he's not thorough enough in his study to at least make a decent pass at that aspect, then what other details is he overlooking or glossing over?

You're right that the mispronunciations don't necessarily reduce the value of what he might have to say. That said, I can pick up other info though from the scene the camera takes in, like the chaotically messy shop, stuff strewn about the workbench, the damaged western chisel handle, the mucky stones - tells me something about how he approaches what he does.

[Brian]

I can sympathize with both sides. I agree that one should take every aspect of this very seriously and I do my best to approach it in that manner. When I began woodworking this was not the path I wanted to take, I wound up going the direction of Japanese tools and joinery because it better suited my approach after trying both and I am happier with these tools and stones the more I research them and the more I use them, where I found many of my western tools to be limiting (not all, but chisels, marking gauges, ect, ect)

However as I continue into Japanese tools and stones and techniques I find it difficult to continue to acquire information on each subject within the overarching subject without a heavy dose of experimenting. It's difficult and has increased my respect for the subject because it is difficult, but when I find someone willing to buy and experiment and offer insight based on their experience within this microcosm, I'm not quick to discard. If I want to experiment with chisels blacksmiths I have to order a set and wait for 10weeks, 6 months or 2-3 years...or I can talk to someone who does that sort of experimenting on the regular who can offer me insight.

I feel like I'm at an advanced beginner stage with Japanese tools and that's where I'm having the hardest time further moving the meter. There is not a place local to me where I can try anything, at all, so I hold people in high regard who are offering genuine assistance, such as yourself and David Weaver, messy shop aside.

[Chris Hall]

What's keeping you from studying Japanese so you can access source material?

[Brian]

Nothing stops me, I will in time. My wife may kill me if I learn Japanese before Mandarin however....just saying.

The only thing I can say in mandarin is "it is your good fortune"....and I bust that out pretty regularly...

[Chris Hall]

My wife speaks Mandarin (it was her college major), which I find tough to pronounce properly, so I wish you the best in that regard. Studying the characters will benefit any foray into Japanese but only to a certain extent as there are innumerable differences in usage.

Ultimately, the amount of material on the topic of Japanese woodworking practice in English is going to be insufficient for anyone who wishes to delve more deeply.

Ultimately, unless you spend a bunch of time in Japan, getting a real grasp on Japanese aesthetics, and the cultural ideas and behaviors which lay behind them, is going to be difficult.

Not wishing to discourage, just to present a realistic idea of the obstacles, all of which are quite surmountable given time, and persistent application.

What bugs me about videos in which someone mangles the language stuff (like in that video) is that those who watch that video are likely to start imitating the pronunciations, and soon enough those mis-pronunciations stick. Like the word 'hara-kiri' became 'harry-karry' in common pronunciation, 'karate' became 'karotty', or 'karaoke' became 'karry-oki'. English speakers can be such lazy fuckers when it comes to other languages, or if not lazy, seem to have a sort of idea that it really doesn't matter how we pronounce foreign words, like we're entitled to mangle other languages without concern.

The irony with a word like 'karaoke' is that the back half of the word, '~oke' is in fact an abbreviation of the English word 'orchestra'. How many would abbreviate 'orchestra' as 'oki'?

A lot of guys in California I worked with called a 'kamo-i' a 'kamoi'. One of the blacksmiths on the course I was just on said that a lot of blacksmiths who are getting into Japanese metalwork are pronouncing 'ha-mon' as 'ham-on'. I guess it might be useful at breakfast, as in "I'll have more ham-on my omelette please"

Once you start saying something wrong, it tends to stick and can be hard to get rid of.

[Chris Hall]

And I should add that I face this same sort of problem myself when it comes to Ming furniture. First off all the pronunciation of the words is tough sledding. Second, I have never been to China. Third, I have no opportunity, short of inventing a time machine, to visit high class residences in China during the Ming period to really soak in the scene and understand it better. I can only take lessons as best I can from acquiring just about every book on Chinese furniture there is, and visiting any museum I can which houses any sort of collection of Chinese furniture.

Since there is virtually no community of people in the West who seek to emulate Chinese furniture in some way, the language/communication issue has not really come up, so I've gotten off easy in that regard.