I live in a small apartment without a patio or any other covered outdoor area where I could finish my furniture and leave it to dry. I suppose I could haul my projects over to a friend's garage or basement, but I'd rather not deal with it, and some of them won't fit in my small car anyway.
I'm looking for a wood finish that is safe to use indoors (the fumes won't knock me out or cause an explosion when I turn my pilot light on), does not smell bad (a pleasant smell would be acceptable, it doesn't need to be odorless), and offers a decent level of protection.
It seems that a water-based poly or varnish would be acceptable. I have used shellac before, and I might stick with it, but I'm sure there is something a bit more protective that I can use indoors.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
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- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
I think something water-based would work fine for you, either the Polywhey (http://www.vermontnaturalcoatings.com/o ... or-finish/) or one of the General Finishes products mentioned in the 'Uncorking the Bottle' thread. For floors specifically, General Finishes makes this:
https://generalfinishes.com/waterbase-f ... ge-topcoat
I imagine it is a good product, though no personal experience with it.
https://generalfinishes.com/waterbase-f ... ge-topcoat
I imagine it is a good product, though no personal experience with it.
- Evans
- Raw Log Import
- Contact:
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
Boiled Linseed Oil? It has an odor, but it's not harmful or too unpleasant.
Walnut oil? No real odor, but it takes more than a month to cure.
I prefer drying oil finishes, actually. They soak in and seal the grain instead of being just a coating on the surface.
Walnut oil? No real odor, but it takes more than a month to cure.
I prefer drying oil finishes, actually. They soak in and seal the grain instead of being just a coating on the surface.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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The idea that oil finishes soak in and seal the grain is marketing hyperbole I'm afraid.
If I may quote Flexner:
Another point about the penetration of finish is that it will vary with the type of wood used. Some types of wood do not accept finish very well at all, others seem to soak it up, so to speak.
Furthermore, drying oils - by which you refer to BOL and Tung oil in terms of what it used in woodworking - are oils which have had driers added to speed up the catalyzing reaction with oxygen. Tung oil, which can dry slightly harder than BOL (but still never fully hardens) will typically contain metallic driers and solvents. These are not the best thing to breathe.
The other oil you mentioned, walnut oil, is a semi-drying oil and remains relatively soft, and as you noted, the drying takes forever.
I've used oils for years but am moving away from them now.
Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
BOL has a pronounced tendency to yellow over time.Evans wrote:Boiled Linseed Oil? It has an odor, but it's not harmful or too unpleasant.
Walnut oil? No real odor, but it takes more than a month to cure.
I prefer drying oil finishes, actually. They soak in and seal the grain instead of being just a coating on the surface.
The idea that oil finishes soak in and seal the grain is marketing hyperbole I'm afraid.
If I may quote Flexner:
See: http://news.thefinishingstore.com/?paged=6"The term “penetrating finish” is one of the most misleading in the vocabulary of finishing because all finishes penetrate. The term is generally used to describe just oil finishes, which dry slowly so they may penetrate a little deeper than faster-drying finishes. But depth of penetration doesn’t have anything to do with protection for the wood, and it’s here that the term becomes misleading because many people think it does, and some manufacturers claim it does. The common descriptive phrase is that the finish “protects the wood from the inside.”
But the quality of a finish that creates better protection for the wood—that is, protection from moisture getting into the wood—is that it dries hard so it can be built thicker on the wood. The thicker the finish, within limits, the better it resists moisture penetration, and oil finishes can’t be built up because they don’t dry hard.
The better terms to use are “film-building” to refer to finishes that dry hard so they can be built up, and “non-film-building” to refer to finishes that don’t cure hard enough to be built up. Using these terms, oil finishes, and also wax finishes, are non-film-building finishes. Varnish, lacquer, shellac and water-based finishes are all film-building finishes."
Another point about the penetration of finish is that it will vary with the type of wood used. Some types of wood do not accept finish very well at all, others seem to soak it up, so to speak.
Furthermore, drying oils - by which you refer to BOL and Tung oil in terms of what it used in woodworking - are oils which have had driers added to speed up the catalyzing reaction with oxygen. Tung oil, which can dry slightly harder than BOL (but still never fully hardens) will typically contain metallic driers and solvents. These are not the best thing to breathe.
The other oil you mentioned, walnut oil, is a semi-drying oil and remains relatively soft, and as you noted, the drying takes forever.
I've used oils for years but am moving away from them now.
- Evans
- Raw Log Import
- Contact:
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Post
Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
True, oil finishes don't seal the wood like a film does, but a film is what I'm trying to avoid. An oil finish is protective enough (dust, fingerprints) for most of my projects, and I just got tired of film finishes. That this leaves me with less real protection is something with which I have learned to live. I've gotten some nice results with shellac lately, so perhaps it's a passing fancy.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
Post
Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
Yeah it's tough, there doesn't seem to be a perfect finish out there. I guess it depends what you're making, and how much handling, wear and tear it will be subject to.
I would never consider a film-building finish for the gate project- totally inappropriate. But for a dining table or other hard-use item, to not put a film on there invites problems down the line. That said, spray-on pre-cat lacquer, with it's 'plasticky' look is just gross to me.
I used to have the same feeling about film finishes. I didn't want that layer on there, preferred a 'close to the wood' feel. But it's not practical on a lot of objects. For me, the biggest motivator to move to water-based finishes was the low VOC's, easy clean up, and no worry about rags catching fire. I'm done with exposure to toxic sludge. Really done.
There are two things as well which must be separated - how nice the finish looks when it leaves your shop and how well it stands up to usage. It also depends upon whether the piece sees outdoor exposure, and whether you are building for yourself (and can know exactly how the piece will be treated) or for a client, where so much less is within your control. If the finish fails however, the client's problem immediately becomes your problem. Imagine the finish you chose for the 35 wood sash windows and the entry doors to the house starts to peel after a year in the sun...
I would never consider a film-building finish for the gate project- totally inappropriate. But for a dining table or other hard-use item, to not put a film on there invites problems down the line. That said, spray-on pre-cat lacquer, with it's 'plasticky' look is just gross to me.
I used to have the same feeling about film finishes. I didn't want that layer on there, preferred a 'close to the wood' feel. But it's not practical on a lot of objects. For me, the biggest motivator to move to water-based finishes was the low VOC's, easy clean up, and no worry about rags catching fire. I'm done with exposure to toxic sludge. Really done.
There are two things as well which must be separated - how nice the finish looks when it leaves your shop and how well it stands up to usage. It also depends upon whether the piece sees outdoor exposure, and whether you are building for yourself (and can know exactly how the piece will be treated) or for a client, where so much less is within your control. If the finish fails however, the client's problem immediately becomes your problem. Imagine the finish you chose for the 35 wood sash windows and the entry doors to the house starts to peel after a year in the sun...
- twblalock
- Lurker
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
My only real concern about water-based film-building finishes is the difficulty of repair compared to oil-based finishes. But the other properties of water-based finishes are so good that I think I will end up using them.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
"My only real concern about water-based film-building finishes is the difficulty of repair compared to oil-based finishes. But the other properties of water-based finishes are so good that I think I will end up using them."
I haven't heard that in regards to the Enduro Var - I understand it is relatively easy to 'burn in' blend repair coats with existing material. Certain I had no issues on a recent table project where at one point I had to remove three coats worth from most of a table top - blending in more coats was no issue.
Have your heard otherwise in regards to other water-based finishes?
I haven't heard that in regards to the Enduro Var - I understand it is relatively easy to 'burn in' blend repair coats with existing material. Certain I had no issues on a recent table project where at one point I had to remove three coats worth from most of a table top - blending in more coats was no issue.
Have your heard otherwise in regards to other water-based finishes?
- twblalock
- Lurker
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
I've heard that about film-building finishes in general, especially about polyurethanes, but not specifically about Enduro Var.
- Brian
- Deshi
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
I'll second what Chris writes about BLO. I used some on a macassar ebony table top about 6-8 years ago, it will be refinished in the next few months. That wood in particular looks quite bad through a yellowed finish.
I was warned away from BLO by a friend and fellow woodworker who mentioned to me that it was one of the few finishes he has personally witnessed spontaneously combust. That was unnerving enough that I ditched the practice of using it.
I was warned away from BLO by a friend and fellow woodworker who mentioned to me that it was one of the few finishes he has personally witnessed spontaneously combust. That was unnerving enough that I ditched the practice of using it.
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