Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
- Tom Culver
- Lurker
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
I've been using General Finishes W-B Satin recently, mixed half and half with their W-B Flat. It gives a gentle sheen almost like Tung oil. Of course, it entails lots of stirring of 'sediment'. It sands like a champ, though, and gets really hard after a year or so.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
Good to know. Have only used their semi gloss and have yet to explore the other options.
- bobro
- Lurker
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
Just started using this:
http://en.belinka.com/izdelki/?izdelek=1&ID=326
I'm not sure exactly what it is, some kind of water-based acrylic resin apparently. The translation "woodstain" is not correct- it comes completely clear as well as in many colors, and builds a film. The odor is pleasant and not strong, cleanup is trivial (water), and it's child-safe when dry. So far I've only used it on sanded spruce, in which case the first coat raised some serious hair, which I sanded down gently with 240 grit before applying more coats. Although the website says "no. of coats, 2", the instructions recommend three coats for beehives (big thing in the region the product is made), and I'll be experimenting with more coats.
The specific product itself probably isn't available where you are. As far as I know, it's only distributed in Central Europe. But, this particular kind of finish, which is completely new to me, seems to be great, at least in my initial impression. The finish is not "plasticky", but some kind of semi-gloss with a touch kind of half way between beeswax and poly, quite "natural" feeling.
What would be the equivalent in US/Canada or Western Europe, I don't know, but I'm sure there must be some similar product.
Will be trying the finish on paulownia, cherry and beech over the next couple of weeks. I'll try to keep tabs on it.
By the way, new here, hi.
http://en.belinka.com/izdelki/?izdelek=1&ID=326
I'm not sure exactly what it is, some kind of water-based acrylic resin apparently. The translation "woodstain" is not correct- it comes completely clear as well as in many colors, and builds a film. The odor is pleasant and not strong, cleanup is trivial (water), and it's child-safe when dry. So far I've only used it on sanded spruce, in which case the first coat raised some serious hair, which I sanded down gently with 240 grit before applying more coats. Although the website says "no. of coats, 2", the instructions recommend three coats for beehives (big thing in the region the product is made), and I'll be experimenting with more coats.
The specific product itself probably isn't available where you are. As far as I know, it's only distributed in Central Europe. But, this particular kind of finish, which is completely new to me, seems to be great, at least in my initial impression. The finish is not "plasticky", but some kind of semi-gloss with a touch kind of half way between beeswax and poly, quite "natural" feeling.
What would be the equivalent in US/Canada or Western Europe, I don't know, but I'm sure there must be some similar product.
Will be trying the finish on paulownia, cherry and beech over the next couple of weeks. I'll try to keep tabs on it.
By the way, new here, hi.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
- bobro
- Lurker
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
Thanks- love your blog by the way!
A little googling shows that this particular product is one of the "new generation water based" finishes, and a number of companies make them now.
One disadvantage is that these finishes cannot be allowed to freeze in the can, which means I can't store the cans in my shop (a concrete shed with a tin roof and no electricity). It looks like there's some trickery involved in combining the chemicals with water, and freezing will break the bonds, ruining the liquid.
Speaking of freezing, I've seen plenty of centuries-old wood gates and such with outdoor exposure that have just been soaked with raw linseed oil all along. It's a traditional outdoor "finish", but it seems to me that its purpose is simply to keep the wood from getting dessicated and crumbling and cracking.
A little googling shows that this particular product is one of the "new generation water based" finishes, and a number of companies make them now.
One disadvantage is that these finishes cannot be allowed to freeze in the can, which means I can't store the cans in my shop (a concrete shed with a tin roof and no electricity). It looks like there's some trickery involved in combining the chemicals with water, and freezing will break the bonds, ruining the liquid.
Speaking of freezing, I've seen plenty of centuries-old wood gates and such with outdoor exposure that have just been soaked with raw linseed oil all along. It's a traditional outdoor "finish", but it seems to me that its purpose is simply to keep the wood from getting dessicated and crumbling and cracking.
- Gonzalo
- Lurker
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
hi Guys
to finish an exterior door that would be appropriate?
to finish an exterior door that would be appropriate?
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Water based finishes can definitely be tough and durable, so that's not an issue. Would not reply upon BLO for much of anything however. Not a finish I would choose to use for anything in fact.
Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
I guess that partly depends upon whether you are building the door for yourself, in which you could choose to experiment, or for a client, in which the risk is relative greater and the penalty for failure, damage to reputation, etc. is something to carefully consider.Gonzalo wrote:hi Guys
to finish an exterior door that would be appropriate?
Water based finishes can definitely be tough and durable, so that's not an issue. Would not reply upon BLO for much of anything however. Not a finish I would choose to use for anything in fact.
- michael langford
- Raw Log Import
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
Well, if the gate has lasted a century, reputation should be safe.
Boiled linseed oil contains toxic chemicals (salts of manganese and potassium are used to adsorb water, boiling oil is rather dangerous) that are part of the problem with BLO. Raw linseed oil does not support spontaneous combustion, and it will polymerize (just takes a bit longer). Not a durable finish by itself, linseed oil is a very effective preparation for any solvent-based finish, as it results in deeper penetration into the wood grain.
Raw linseed oil mixed 1/1 with turpentine (or mineral spirits) generously sloshed onto timbers makes hand-planing easier, reduces blade wear, and leaves a finish that has been acceptable for our house. Outside, it darkens noticeably, has no resistance to UV, but does provide a barrier to water absorption. With some pigment added, it will last for several years before needing attention, and untreated wood with that finish is less susceptible to fungus and decay. Essentially, an inexpensive primer.
Without some sort of moisture barrier, outdoor woodwork that is subject to saturation and drying in sunlight moves a lot. Expansion and shrinkage will literally tear wood fibers apart, decking and siding will cup, even in otherwise durable woods. Old-growth wood was generally straighter-grained, and had far more resins than second-growth timber.
Varnishes are fine if they get regular maintenance, but traditional long-oil varnishes (spar varnish) are very flexible. Spar varnish is mostly linseed oil (or soy alkyd) with some tung oil and solvent. Most of the proprietary finishes (Watco, etc) have really potent volatiles that speed drying, all cautions apply.
Tried & True, sold by Lee Valley, is really hard to beat for interior woodwork. Polymerized linseed oil and beeswax, it's about as non-toxic as you can get.
Boiled linseed oil contains toxic chemicals (salts of manganese and potassium are used to adsorb water, boiling oil is rather dangerous) that are part of the problem with BLO. Raw linseed oil does not support spontaneous combustion, and it will polymerize (just takes a bit longer). Not a durable finish by itself, linseed oil is a very effective preparation for any solvent-based finish, as it results in deeper penetration into the wood grain.
Raw linseed oil mixed 1/1 with turpentine (or mineral spirits) generously sloshed onto timbers makes hand-planing easier, reduces blade wear, and leaves a finish that has been acceptable for our house. Outside, it darkens noticeably, has no resistance to UV, but does provide a barrier to water absorption. With some pigment added, it will last for several years before needing attention, and untreated wood with that finish is less susceptible to fungus and decay. Essentially, an inexpensive primer.
Without some sort of moisture barrier, outdoor woodwork that is subject to saturation and drying in sunlight moves a lot. Expansion and shrinkage will literally tear wood fibers apart, decking and siding will cup, even in otherwise durable woods. Old-growth wood was generally straighter-grained, and had far more resins than second-growth timber.
Varnishes are fine if they get regular maintenance, but traditional long-oil varnishes (spar varnish) are very flexible. Spar varnish is mostly linseed oil (or soy alkyd) with some tung oil and solvent. Most of the proprietary finishes (Watco, etc) have really potent volatiles that speed drying, all cautions apply.
Tried & True, sold by Lee Valley, is really hard to beat for interior woodwork. Polymerized linseed oil and beeswax, it's about as non-toxic as you can get.
- Chris Hall
- Site Admin
- Contact:
- Location: Greenfield, Massachusetts
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
I think the crucial detail in that description of the use of linseed oil is the term 'all along'. Finishes which are maintained and renewed regularly are going to do a whole lot better than finishes which are applied and forgotten. Maintenance is generally though difficult to rely upon moving forward in a lot of cases. If it is your own house, that is going to be a different situation of course.
- crannygoat
- Raw Log Import
- Contact:
- Location: Oakland, CA
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Re: Finishes that are safe and pleasant to use indoors?
I just used a product called Kunos 243 counter top oil, made by Livos. It's composed of Linseed oil, stand oil, citrus solvents, and plant based driers. Non toxic. No heavy metals, has a pleasant odor, 3 coats looks decidedly finished, no top film. It's expensive but has amazing coverage on subsequent coats. It performed well in my wine and water tests, but we will see how it fares in time. Just installed two tables in a winery's public tasting room and dining hall, so it will certainly be put through it's paces.
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